Our Need For Social Validation

Alright, well, good morning, Greg, and hello to everyone listening. This is going to be hopefully a fun, interesting episode, and hopefully I get some questions answered this time. I would say I'm fired up, and Greg is doing the Brian [expletive] so I'm wondering what's going on. I just don't want it to be a "me" episode.

Yeah, yeah.

So here's the thing. We're actually, just for the listeners, recording this on July 18th. So, recently, over the past weekend, some major events occurred that have been the topic of the week. And, of course, I'm talking about the death of Richard Simmons. So we're going to jump into that. No, obviously, we're talking about the assassination attempt on Donald Trump.

And the social commentary that comes from this... now, this happens with every major event, where everyone gets on and, all of a sudden, they're the expert. They bring up all this stuff, and it's always just draining to me, and I'm sure it is to most people. Most people complain about that and they make fun of those people, but yet we all do it ourselves.

So what I wanted to kind of approach with this, Greg, is I was going to kind of get your take on why we as humans do this. My idea is that everyone wants to say, "Oh, it's the media. Oh, it's social media. Oh, it's this." It's like, no, the technology has changed, but people are the same as they've always been.

So when I took a step back from all this, from listening to all this nonsense – because just for some of the listeners who don't know, this is one of those contexts where, one, I was a sniper in the Marine Corps. I did a lot of protection work, high-threat protection for government officials and agencies all over the world as a, what they call, Designated Offensive Marksman or Counter Sniper team. So I have direct knowledge of tactics, techniques, procedures – how this stuff works. And you have experience in this field, in this situation, as do you, Greg, in other realms, not as a sniper, but doing even presidential details with different protective stuff.

So if there was something that came up that I could speak to, it would be on the subject. But why I don't is because I wasn't there. So I can speak to my experience and typical things that are supposed to happen, but I can't tell you anything about what happened on the ground.

And when these things occur, I see people with supposed vast experience commenting on stuff. But if you have experience, you know that the initial reports of something that's happening are what? They're always [expletive] terrible and mostly wrong. You know that there's a lot of stuff that comes out that ends up not being accurate, or that was something someone said and it got to the news and then they spread that. There's a lot of really bad information. And it's actually done in a manner that people are trying really hard to get out the information that's necessary, and you flood the net, and then no one knows what is what and what's real and what actually happened.

There are other things I notice, like eyewitness testimony, where people are terrible, even when you're trying really, really hard to recall the events and be honest, you don't have a clear view of things. So when people come out and start commenting on this stuff, it's infuriating to me. It's like you're just adding nonsense out there. Or even if they bring up a good point, their overall way of approach and theoretical base for this stuff is either non-existent or they don't even know.

So it's frustrating and interesting to me. I didn't want this to be a bash on those people thing. I actually take it from a completely different perspective, because I still go to other people for advice. Like, yes, I was a sniper in this role, but I haven't been in that world in a long time. So when people come to me with questions about that stuff, or like a rifle or a new scope or something, I'll say, "Hey, hit up my buddy so-and-so," or, "Here, take this guy's number and ask him all the questions because he's on top of this stuff. Dude, I've been out of that world for so long."

But either way, the point and topic today is why do we as humans do this? This has to be something that's been around longer than Instagram and 24-hour news networks, right? This is ingrained in human beings. So I wanted to go to you, not just because of your expertise on human behavior and explaining this, but also because you're not really on social media. You're on LinkedIn, and functionally, you don't understand it at all — how it all works. I've been on it for 13 years, and I still learn it. But you do understand the concept.

When I explained, you asked me about Instagram a long time ago, and what I said was, because what you know – if you're listening – what Greg used to do a lot when we had a lot of folks, was put together a PowerPoint. It may be one photo, it may be five photos, and then an explanation of, "Hey, here's what I saw, here are some photos from the parking lot. This is why this is important." And you just called them instructor development to keep people fresh, give a new perspective, or it could be a case that's happening, "Hey, take a look at these elements of the case because that's important and relevant to what you're teaching this week or something." And so I explained, he was like, "That's basically Instagram, just with a different motive. People are just sharing parts of their life with a bunch of different photos and an explanation of what that is." And it's like, "Oh, okay." So, different intent, different motive behind it. You're doing this as teaching; they're just doing it as sharing life experiences. So you actually do understand this stuff as a medium, just in a different perspective, which is why I want to get your opinion on some of this stuff. We'll get into a few areas, but the big one I want to know is, what is it about humans that we feel the need to speak up and say something, because I think there's a lot more behind that than people realize.

Yeah, and I think we're going to have to take it in pieces and parts. I think we need to go back —

No, no, no, I love the intro, because we get to meet Angry Brian. A lot of people don't know there's that side of you.

Angry, angry. And the greatest thing in the world is, you're not angry because somebody didn't come to you to speak on CNN. You're not angry. No, the millimeter of descent and the Corolla... that's all horseshit. What it is, is we like to talk about things that we can think can improve human behavior, or we talk about limits of human performance, again, with the understanding that we want an output, and the output is that you become better at being able to see things. So, I always like to start with historical perspective. Okay, Java, it's okay, she saw a horse or a chipmunk, so she'll be fine in a minute.

(Laughs) Java...

So she doesn't bark, she just ran by, ran by shouting. Yeah, so the first section is, remember our need to be a part of a tribe or a clan. So social media meets that need. And we're not going to talk all about social media, but let's talk a minute about it. Our brains are wired for connections with other humans, and bad things always happen when we interrupt that cycle. So antisocial is not the same thing as wanting or needing to be alone. I know a lot of people that I would classify as loners that live up in Gunnison, Colorado, because they like being loners, and they're completely successful and they're wonderful humans.

I would also say, Brian, it's very different when you choose to be a loner, or when society chooses to leave you alone.

Chooses you. Yeah, so, so first, if we can understand that, now we seek out tribes, we seek out clans. We want to have authentic societal and psychological connections with other humans. Guess what? That's no different, historical again, than my first section is back in the 60s and 70s. Our parents — your parents and mine — did what was called happy hour. Now happy hour is taking on a whole new meaning now, folks, yeah. Look it up.

In the 60s and 70s, everybody that lived around Detroit worked for General Motors in one way, shape or form. Before they ever made it home for dinner, they would stop at a club or a bar and they would sit around and have their fancy drinks and they would [expletive] – they would talk about politics and they would talk about religion, and they would talk about their shitty boss, not for social validation as much as for a release, for a cathartic moment from a busy day. And that's where we get the smoking and alcohol are bad for us, but that's what we relied on, Brian. That was our escape mechanism.

Yeah.

So our social media then was the Club Chevrolet and Warren. And we would stop in and we'd have a couple of drinks and the bar knew it, so they had bar food and they had low drink prices, and then we would DUI ourselves back home, and generally beat up our significant other or kicked the dog. I mean, there was a lot of bad repercussions from it.

Yeah, there were a lot of bad things going on.

In our mind, what we thought was that we were reducing the stress in our environment. And we always got a positive feedback loop because of the dopamine. Were there a couple of fistfights now and again? Were different things happening? Of course they were. But the idea was that we were in the moment. "Hey, I'm with my tribemates. Look at me. Hey, go, go to Tim. He's always pissed about something." And Tim's like, "Hey, kiss my ass. You didn't go through what I went." And that's exactly what social media fills now. The problem is, it's different. The flash to bang is much faster now. We don't all get into our cars after work and drive to a place. It's not deliberate like that, Brian. Now it comes fast and furious. So people feel that need for validation, they feel the need to be heard, and they have an outlet now that they've never had before. And it's so much quicker and more powerful, far-reaching.

Okay. So, yeah, I like your analogy there, the happy hour analogy. And so let's say that's what this is, and let's say there's a lot of discussion with that. So the technology is obviously different. So, one, the community is bigger. So the amount of people that will hear it, the spread, the reach, like you said, the flash to bang is faster. It's easier. So I don't have to sit there and think about what I want to say. I can just, I can literally go stream of consciousness on Twitter if I want to.

Well, and here's the other part because you're taking it from a sociological perspective, which is what this probably whole episode really is, but if I get out of line at that bar, someone's going to punch me in the face.

Yes.

I'm eye to eye. I'm in their presence. It's right here in person.

So when I don't have the feed — the feedback mechanism is very different on social media.

Yes.

Because there's very little to no risk. There's little to no actual consequences for what I say or do on there. And then now what's happened, I believe, over time is that's now led to that culture of, "Well, it doesn't matter." And here's where we forget that sometimes, and this is what we all do, because the fidelity and the granularity and the sort of production value of a video on Instagram is very different than that gritty, "We're having a drink and a smoke and talking to someone at the bar and exchanging ideas," right? It's very, very different. And so we almost attribute different values to these, right? We can attribute someone as an expert in something that they're not. We can look at it simply because, "Well, look at the production value and look at what they're saying and doing." Where, like, in the bar, you go, "Shut the [expletive] up, dude. You're just using big words again. That's Mike. He always goes to the thesaurus and tries to sound smart." You know what I mean? Like, you don't have as much of that. And then I think that sort of adds to this, like, that's a good point where if you took that in a different context, you'd be like, "What the [expletive] are you talking about, dude?" And I, I that's, that's one of the issues I have with it.

And the other big thing is too, is because you don't have that correction in the bar. So if I'm in that community and people know me and I start piping up about something, one person might go, "Yeah, yeah, but what you don't know [expletive] about that area." But then maybe the rest of the group goes, "Oh, no, Brian's actually been studying that his whole life. I know he works down there at the plant, but he goes and, he's a history buff and collects this or something like that," right? That, as a matter of fact, he's the most qualified person to talk about that.

Exactly.

Well, and, you know, there, there are different ways to look at it. Like I just gave you my bona fides at the beginning to how I could talk on this specific example, but I don't because I stay in my lane of what I do. And I don't mean that as a negative to people who do speak of it because the other thing I see, which I think is different on a social media platform than it is in real life, is you sort of — well, it happens in real life, it just happens at a greater scale on social media — this sort of character arc of these people. And the group I'll belong to is the one I'll bash, right? So you've got these veteran influencers, right? And maybe they start a company or maybe they get out and they do something, and it's really cool, whatever it is. It's a coffee company, it's a T-shirt, it's this thing. I got whatever going. Awesome. And they get like, "Dude, yeah," whatever it is. And they get popular and then they get a following. And it's like, "Hey, that's awesome." And then there's this character arc that they all fall into, and it's like, "Now what's your opinion on this? What's your opinion on that?" And that gets farther and farther and farther away from what their original message was. And then now I'm listening to you because you're an influencer and I like what you say. It's like, okay, you're a non-decision-making member of a tactical level unit and you're going to give your thoughts on Ukraine? Do you understand?

That was my original, what I wanted to do in life. I got a bachelor's in political science and I was looking at all the stuff out in DC to go do, and because I really, really enjoyed foreign policy and thought it was intriguing, my life went a different path and I got more interested in what I do now. But the idea was like, this is an extremely complex topic. Why are we oversimplifying that?

And so we have this need to hear it from someone, and I get this because we talk about this in ways, it's that, you know, just how sociologically we're established with relationships and groups and tribes. And then there's always going to be a leader, and there'll be thought leaders and influencers. That term goes back for as long as humans have been around. But is it just more prevalent now, or is it just now that we have the ability to see more than it was? And what is it again? I know you're talking about, we need to be heard, we need to be seen, but why do we do that in one area and not in the other? Meaning, if you, Greg, you're not an expert on COVID, but then when you're giving your theory on this, I go, "Oh, yeah, that's, that's awesome. I agree with this." Like, you see how we're so dichotomous in looking at this thing? So, like a sea lion, we're going in and out of the waves here because we have to. It's okay. Again, welcome to Angry Brian, folks. This is where Greg first started when we were driving in the car and he was banging on the dashboard. "I can't get my thoughts, my thoughts out in a coherent manner," which is why I'll never be one of those, like, personality types that have that because I can't do that because it's so [expletive]... it grinds my ears.

Yeah. So here's the thing. So we think we need to unwind or relax or escape, but in actuality, we need to socialize, because socialization is an essential form of self-expression. We need to seek validation of others, whether it's a wife or a kid or a friend or a husband or a significant other. Fill in whatever DEI you want. We also need to be entertained and find like minds for emotional support. That's an essential – that's not a thing that we can bargain with or trade off. And social media immediately offers us a safe environment with absolutely zero repercussions. Exactly like Brian said.

And I would posit that the average user on social media wants to remain connected and share their opinions and give emotional support to other humans, just like on Facebook. But what happened is, now they got into a feedback loop of social validation that dumps dopamine. And you have also linked back in, not to use their title, but because that scary feeling in the pit of your stomach after being called out or fearing that you're going to be challenged on social media wants me to get back there and see how many more people linked, how many more people looked at me? Are people reading it? Do I, can I feel vindicated by what I say or do? So it's all a chemical game.

But I would ask you to think just for a minute: what kind of total release do you think that Thomas Crooks felt when he finally hit send on that message he had been working on for weeks, and dumps his message on social media, and heads for the rally? Okay, that's what we're fighting here, Brian. So you have homophily on one side—the tendency for people to seek out or be attracted to those birds of a feather who are similar to themselves. Right? Then you got isopraxism right on the other side of the coin, and that's brought on by our mirror neurons. We're unconsciously mirroring the behavior of others that we admire or we want to be around. And it just starts to get going. It's not your plan for the long game. It just starts to happen. And then all of a sudden, we're like, "Hey, wait a minute, let's not fight about this, we're tribemates." And that cohesive nature of cooperation keeps drawing us back. "I wonder what Jim said about my last post."

So have you ever been in a situation where you saw the same post over and over and over on different channels? And it's a guy saving a dog in Indonesia or whatever, and you saw it six months ago, and you saw it a year ago. But now they changed the music and they put a flower at the bottom and then they put their own name on it. Yeah, that's seeking psychological and sociological validation, Brian. And we know that biologically the return on investment is that we get a ton of dopamine from those things. So, and when that counter goes up — I don't even know if they use counters anymore, but remember in the early days there was a counter.

How many hits your site? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, likes. That's a perfect way of describing.

So now what happens, Brian, is that instead of just unwinding and escaping, like at happy hour, now we find out that, wait a minute, we got a whole bunch of new friends and we're engaged in a whole bunch of new online activities, and my self-esteem even gives me a title. Somebody called me and said, "Well, would you give an opinion on this?" Holy [expletive]. And now, guess what? We got one foot in the trap already, don't we? So every time we do it, it reinforces the fact that this is part of my identity and it's part of who I am. And you said it earlier when you were joking, like, "Oh, yeah, Chuck, he always reads into that [expletive]." A long time ago, it was slow enough, like Shakespeare wrote about Falstaff and Henry IV wrote about, "Hey, let's go have a drink before we go home for dinner and discuss these heavy topics." Right? And I'm paraphrasing, Brian. We don't do that now.

We, we don't go to there.

This is how we do.

Which is not — it's not, it's not congruent with how humans are. So what I'm getting from you is, there's certain psychological and sociological underpinnings that, and necessities, that are sort of contributing to why we do this. And then, and then the environment and the system and the medium takes over and creates that sort of feedback loop where now I'm doing it so much I don't even realize it now.

Now it's so, couple that.

Couple that immediacy. Yes.

Couple that with the immediacy of social media, the immediacy of information. One of the first, humans need feedback, and when you get immediate feedback, it's, yeah, we'll take it even if it's sketchy. So, so they had a microphone in a kid's face that knew Crooks. Yeah, and this is what he said. He said, "Can you comment on the [expletive]?" And he said, "Yeah, you know, I don't know him, I didn't know him in school, he wasn't in my class, but he was bullied and he was a loner."

What?

You know, that's, that was the —

I saw that because he's like, "Well, you know, he got bullied a lot and people said stuff to him." And they were like, "Well, like, what kind of things would people say to him? What they call him?" "Well, I don't really know, I'm not sure." But I know it's like, "Well, wait a minute. You just said you're, you're providing some, some form of evidence to support your claim, and then when asked on the evidence, you, you cannot provide it."

Yes. So, so now there was a repercussion though, because the, the interviewer had the mic in his face and was looking square at him, just like that guy the other day on, on the news that I told you that said, "Well, he crawled up like an inchworm, like Lee Harvey Oswald." "Wait a minute, that didn't occur. You can't conflate facts and truth and historical perspective and come out with an opinion in real life because somebody will call you on it." But on social media, Brian, there's that freedom to say what you want. You, you can give a thumbs down to somebody and change the trajectory of their week, but you'll feel better for the next four hours. You get, you get how that works? And I know you do, but I'm hoping that I'm saying that in a manner that the people listening can understand.

Okay. And then I would apply this then, obviously, not just for someone who goes out there and says something, "I'm going to speak my mind," but then it's then the same for like the comment section.

Yes.

Right? And there's, there's different types of stuff you'll see in there. You know, that's why, like, even on our social media, like on, like, uh, let's say certain ones you can control, like on our Instagram, like, you can only comment on our stuff if you're following us. And I do that for a specific, for a specific reason, because your stuff can get out there and people can share it and anyone, a lot of people can see it. But then, you know, it might pop up in your feed for some other reason because Instagram goes, "Oh, hey, you're, you have these accounts you follow. Check out this account, all these people follow this account too," right? So I'm just kind of explaining to you, Greg. But like, so it might pop up like so accounts pop up that you're not even following, right? Just like on LinkedIn when it says, "Hey, do you want to follow, or a lot of your followers are following this person?" Right? And so what I do is, you have to actually click follow in order to comment on our post. And I do that as a barrier. I do that to keep out the lowest, like, common denominator, the lowest 1% of people that just are just [expletive] — just, just say stupid stuff because it, it shows that you took the, like, you wanted to comment so bad on our post that you took the time to follow us. So you, you have to take, you had to take a step in there. So it demonstrates your intent, right? Because most people are going to go, "Well, oh, I want, I want to say something." They go, "Only, only followers." And they're like, "Whatever," and they'll just go on, right? Because it's, it's so I, that's who I'm trying to, the riffraff I try to keep out. And it's one small barrier. But I would, everything you brought up would, would apply to that, that comment section. So why, what, what, I mean, and you've seen them even on LinkedIn, the comments sections are hilarious if you know a lot about human behavior because it's just like, "Oh my God," it's again, it's slapping my forehead, going like, "What are you talking about?" So, so do these sort of same rules apply in there? And then why is that different? Because you're always going to get someone, here's what I, one, you're always going to have your classic sniper that's like, "Well, actually, you know, this, this, this," or whatever, looking for that fracture, that mistake that they can exploit, right? Then you're going to have someone that says like, "Oh, yeah, um, you know, that's just like something I did," where they, like, they make the post about them. And then there's like people who just, like, like you, like, uh, I know Clark always calls you like he's like, "I love Greg, he's my biggest hype man." Oh, Mich was saying thanks too, he's like, "My biggest hype man on LinkedIn," because you're just like, "Hey, that's a awesome. Like, way to go. Or, like, I support this. Or, like, that's really cool. Great job." So, like, you, and, and, and you're always like that with people, but, but, um, you know, those are sort of the cre, things. So, so what is that there in, in the comment section? Is that, is that again, does that go back to the bar? Does that go back, I gotta remember that term and look it up later, to feel if I'm gonna be insulted?

So, all of our social context—in all of our social context and context—we look for, for, uh, lack of ambiguity, lack of anxiety, and safety through belonging, first part, and loyalty, second part. I, Brian, I know I can trust you. I know that you would stand up for me if I wasn't there. I know that if we get into a scrum, you're going to be the first one throwing punches. And that helps. That helps me go day-to-day. So what happens is now I'm online and there's a great degree of anonymity, there's almost zero eye contact, I can't read your nonverbal communications. So I have to crush you big. And because I have control over the keyboard, I have control over the narrative, the conversation, and I can tell you how to think, I can tell you how to feel. Okay? And that's all a mirror, again, back to isopraxism and homophily. That's my feelings of inadequacy, my lack of control, own aspect of my— okay? That's why I have to, I have a psychological and sociological need to post hateful comments. Okay? You see a person like me, Brian, you know me, I'm always glasses full. There's a way out of this, it's going to be great, I love the way you turn that around. Okay? But there's other people that I run into that are, that, "It'll never work, we're all going to die." That just drains me, Brian. And, and so I have to avoid those people because what happens is they take my chlorophyll, they take my oxygen, and they just use too much of me. So that's why there's two reasons I'm not on social media. It's like Jazz, I'm afraid of it. I don't understand where it might be going. Uh, and, and all of the rules. And the second thing is that, you know me, if somebody was being belligerent or mistreating or doing something like that, I, I couldn't take that. I would have to either fix that person or, you know, I would constantly be sparring with them. And knowing that now, with AI, that that many of the comments aren't even generated by the person, you know, you're being rude because that fills a hole in you. You're not being rude because you're smarter than me. And once we get that, that changes the, the, the battle space. So I, I choose not to be there.

So how much of this is, let me, let me sort of preface this. Because, you know, you, you see this sort of different commentary and someone may bring up a good point based on their experience. I could bring up all kinds of different points on this one based on my experience. Like I had people reach out and say, "Hey, what is going —" like the best questions I got. Yeah, the best questions I got, because people felt that they could reach out to me, which I hope they did. And always, especially friends, people I know, some were colleagues, some were friends, people we work with. But the best questions I got were for people who had no military, no security, no law enforcement background, because it was like, "How does this happen?" Or, "What was this?" Or just my thing was like, or like, they just wanted my take. And I said, "You know, this is right after this stuff happened." I go, "Look, man, I don't know anything. I go, just from what I'm seeing and what's been reported so far, this sounds like a communications issue. This sounds like someone was trying to do something, it didn't make it through, there's signal to noise, all the stuff we talk about." There seems to be gaps sometimes too many people.

Well, and the other thing is like, "Well, how come there wasn't this?" And I was like, "Well, look, you know, in a security element like this, you always have your overt, you know, counter sniper teams out there, that's a, that's a deterrent more than anything. And then you're always going to have like a clandestine or covert team somewhere that's hidden, just like you have plainclothes people in the crowd and you have uniform folks. And you have, right, there's, there's this web of how this works. Like, 'Well, you just got on this perfect site.'" I go, "Yeah, they probably set up inside the building because they were like, 'Hey, this is a perfect observation point,' right? I've, where anything's going to happen. I'll tell you right now, me and my buddy had our teams and we were on patrol and like, literally comes to be on the radio, like, 'Hey, this is a perfect spot for an ambush. I'm going to set up here.' And then, guess what? There's a guy [expletive] waiting there for us who blew himself up on our patrol." So it was like, obviously, multiple people saw this as a great ambush. You know what I'm saying? There's only many.

But, but I, I get what, what I'm getting at is, you know, we always want an explanation, and humans always want a simple explanation. We don't like uncertainty. We look for causal relationships in everything, right? We look for patterns where they often don't exist, because we're primed as humans for pattern recognition.

Exactly.

How much chip — yeah, yeah, exactly. How much of this is is based in fear? And I, and I don't just take this situation in commentary now, I talk big picture about all of it. Like every time there's a police video shooting or something that comes out and you get the same, "We're going to do a video breakdown on this. We're going to break down the body-worn camera and all this stuff." And I, you know, I kind of think that it's like a lot of it doesn't have a lot of training value. And I'm like, "Well, what," and I try to really listen to what they're saying and what they're talking about. And so there's always a, like a tactical conversation, "Well, you should have taken cover here and you're this." It's like, "Okay, that's, that's great. Thanks. Like, whatever. You weren't there, but that I'm sure that's what you would have done." And, and I get that for like some points, but like, how much of that is done out of fear? How much of that is where I have to justify or I have to say, "This is why this occurred. I wouldn't have made that mistake," so I know this won't happen to me. How much is that just based fear? Out of fear.

Yep. So, so I'll answer it two ways if you'll indulge me. First is, hearing people immediately come out and give the loner explanation with the antisocial personality disorder, first of all, stop. You have no idea what you're talking about. Many people that I know are loners and they're perfectly healthy, and they don't need as much social interaction as you do. And perfectly —

Real quick before you go on that, because and part, part of it is because a lot of these terms get thrown around so much that they become meaningless. And then everyone, like, knows so many people like, "Oh, yeah, my ADHD brain." I was like, "Did you go to a doctor? Did you get evaluated?" Or, or, or, "Oh, the person's a narcissist." It's like, "Okay, how do you know that? And who cares? And what does that effect?" Like, yeah.

Your desktop calendar is out of date. Throw it away.

Or we heard something like, like part of it is because those terms become so wid—

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And then, and then now you force you, you have a, a taxonomy becomes inevitable, but it's not true, it's based on falsehood. So, so, uh, uh, okay, let me give you an antisocial personality, antisocial personality disorder example. Have you ever watched an episode of Cops and seen a guy no matter how many times they tell him to calm down or you're going to go to jail, and he's not only fighting with the cops, but he's fighting with people at the scene and his family, and he's so belligerent and drunk that he's covered in sweat, he's got dirt on his face, and he's ripping off his own clothes while he's going up, and the gibberish that he's spouting is just hilarious and stupid. Okay? That's what we're talking about when we're talking about antisocial personality disorder. We're talking about the, the mental, uh, uh, uh, inability—it's a disorder—to, to, uh, distinguish good from bad, and you're breaking laws and you're not conforming to social laws. This kid held it together. All the people that, that we talk about with Crooks, Crooks fell right into all the thing—we have an episode on this coming, folks, so I'm not going to ruin it out—but he fell right into, and I hate to call it profile because that spins everybody out of control, that's exactly what it is. He fits the perfect profile for it, and he was screaming for attention. So the idea is that don't look at antisocial personality disorder as a reason for it. Why do you choose that? Because you're afraid. Because you're an insecure, afraid human being and you've got to point to something that's outside of your ken and say, "It must have been this." Why do we get afraid when we see a fraction of a millisecond of a video and somebody says, "Do you see this shadowy shape that looks like whatever? Well, that's a UFO." And even the most, you know, trained Naval pilot said it was traveling at 4,000 feet per second and doing this and that. Brian, there's not enough on that video to draw a reasonable conclusion about anything. But because I'm controversial, it makes me feel better. I have some control over what's going on, and to know that you're questioning it too. Now I've created a mini tribe, a mini form of socialization, social media that fits the need, but it's [expletive]. Does that make sense?

And yeah, because the fear comes from, not — we fear things we don't understand naturally. That's why we're still alive. That's why we're, we're all alive, either us talking or you listening this conversation right now, because somewhere in your throughout your lineage, people said, "Let's not go do that. Let's not do that. Maybe we shouldn't go over there. I'm a little scared." And so they stayed alive.

Exactly.

And there's, there's so, so you have to have a healthy amount of fear for for survival purposes. But I, I think a lot of this stems from, I want to know, I want to understand this, and I don't because it's too vast, it's too broad, it's too complex. So I'm going to oversimplify it, and here's some things I know about the situation that are cognitively close enough or close enough to something that I know or have seen before. So it must be that. And, and that's, first of all, that's a completely normal, logical, uh, survival-based way to think, and it's how we're wired to think. Right?

It is.

That, that, that's what, that's what, meaning our own cognitive processes are working against us when it comes to sense-making, because if I don't have a framework for this, because I've had some discussions, even my friends, and they, like, they bring up really great points. And, and one of them I saw, it was an interesting one, in, in one of my buddies who's super knowledgeable in this type of stuff, and he was like, "Yeah, but look at what he did compared to what we know from tactical training at this program. The average person showing up and starting that qualification with an M4 at 100 yards and blah, blah." And I was like, "Yeah, but." And then it was like a lightbulb moment for me. I was like, "Oh, okay, I see what you're comparing this to."

Yep. That's an unreasonable comparison.

Unreasonable comparison, and an internal baseline. It's not an — right? That that was, that was my point. It was, you're going off of what you know. And you can't, you can't unlearn what you know. You can't say, "Greg, put aside all of this experience you have over here and look it takes agency." Exactly. Well, you can't, you can't do that. Like, you, you can't unlearn, you can't just say, "I'm going to shut off the part of my brain that knows this information and go clean." You can't. So what we do is we, we, we equate it with what we know. Yep. But, um, but, but that can also get in the way because we, we don't know him, we don't know. And so we talk about the internal baseline versus the external baseline. And just what everyone does is, you know, they go the, the exact opposite direction of what you're supposed to do in investigation. Whatever, it goes, goes, "I think this is what happened, let me go find evidence to support my claim." It's like, "Okay, my gosh, well like that's the, that's the opposite way of what you're supposed to go." You have to go, "What can we, what do we know? What can we prove that we know happened, and then build from there? And then let the evidence take you to where this situation goes." And you have to look at it as objective as you possibly can as a human. But, but we don't do that as people because I need to have an answer right now because my brain [expletive] needs that, and it needs it right away.

I want to beat out the millions of people online too.

Yes, yes. Well, that, that's the, that's the other part of it that, that adds, that adds to the pressure of it. And, you know, the, the, you know, everyone has, wants to be the, the first one out with the story. And then now, because you have no repercussions, people don't even retract what they said or change it later. They just go, "Well, you know," I mean, how much you, that's the world we live in now. I mean, it's, it's the government's fault that I even thought that it was a big conspiracy. It's like, "No, it's not. The words you're looking for is, 'I'm sorry.'" But the word you're looking for, like, what you're saying is, "I'm not responsible for for checking the veracity that, or, or, or of the information that I take in." And, and so it's that's the diffusion of responsibility that we see. But, but it's like, it, that's what frustrates me. And but I don't want it to be a, I don't take it from like a, "This person's an idiot or they're an [expletive] or they're just full of themselves." It's like, no, this is, this is kind of how we're wired. This is, this is the way things work. And, and it doesn't translate well over the, the mediums that we use today. So back in the happy hour bar, there was corrective measures. And whether those corrective measures were right or not, there were corrective measures for my tribe, my community where I was at. So, so it formed your socialization for future —

Exactly. So, so look, you said so much good stuff, let's not hurry past this. Let's slow down for a minute. First of all, folks, when Brian comes out with something and he picks it to death, he comes to his own realization after a while and calms down and then starts going, "Okay, well, let's look at the significance." But he started high and right, which is where we'll start again. I love that. And, and I mean, that's a really good trait, Brian, because you mentally extract, you throw out all the [expletive], you get a little pissed about something, and then you go back to find out why. Most humans don't do that. So I give you kudos for that.

Let's go to Crooks just for a second, okay? Crooks, on the day that Trump is going to be in his town and people are going to —

It wasn't his town, it was close.

Town, shut the [expletive] up for a minute and listen to what I'm saying. His area. Crooks, and now you got me angry. Crooks, Crooks knows this. His family knows this, the neighbors know this, the people that are there know this. And Crooks comes up with the plan, by the way, because he is a social being. He says, "Mom, Dad, I'm taking the rifle and going down to the rifle range." Which is like me telling you when I'm in San Diego, "Hey, Brian, I know there's a hurricane, but I'm going to run down to the pier and do some fishing." Okay? It's that egregiously obvious.

But what happens is the flash-to-bang of social information and our likelihood not to believe that we're embroiled in this, takes precedence. And, and so now the second part of that, now we use that information to go back and go, "Well, clearly there was a conspiracy because the parents didn't see it. You think this was this kid's first lie? You think he didn't lie to a whole bunch of people to make this plan?" Now, now, hold on, hold on. So, so what happens is now what we do is we mistake misinformation for accident, and we start making them way more than something. So, so there was one, a guy that's going down and he goes, "Look at this woman in the background, and at this moment she looks to the right and then there's a smirk on her face and then she says something to herself." And when I slow it down, Brian, have you ever played Angry Birds when you're supposed to be paying attention? Have you ever been [expletive] around on your phone sending somebody a, a text or a joke right in the middle of a really big concert or something like that? And if somebody took that moment in time and said, "I'm going to judge the rest of this event by this completely out-of-line information," that's what I fear. Because you said that, you said a number of things and they were all right, but what you failed to say is that there's a problem with these people getting on as experts because it dumbs down all of us. And that's the thing, it becomes what is it, it becomes a fact in record because they put it in print. And that's not true. So we have to make sure that we go back to the bar, which I don't mind at all, but we have to make sure we go back to the 60s and 70s and we have to draw a line and say, "No, this [expletive] stops. This is not how good tribemates act. This is not philosophically correct, this is not psychologically correct, and it's not healthy."

There's, um, there's no going back, I know that. Um, but it's, it's a way to look at these situations. And, you know, it, it's funny, because of course, you know, the first text I got from my brother about it, he's like, "Well, looks like, looks like we're taking a break from social media for a couple weeks." And it's like, yeah, because it's like, "Oh, God, here, here we go." But we all, we all, and, and here's, here's my other sort of question about this, is we now all know that this happens, right? That, that people get on and they say things and they're just trying to be the first. So they're trying to get heard. Like we know this. We know like that, that's a recognition right there. And even people go, "Here we go. Now everyone took their..." You know, I saw, you know, all the, the memes out of this situation have been absolutely incredible, which gives me hope for, for the so damn funny. People are [expletive] hilarious.

(Laughs)

And which, which I love because, because those are great. And it's like, uh, you know, it, they were talking about some famous person, like, "Oh, so-and-so realized that they're a, they're a security expert. Now they went ahead and put that hat on this morning." It's like, so we all know that that happens. But, but then why does it continue to engage us? And why does it continue to happen? Like, you, you get what I'm saying? How come I can say that about certain areas, but then I'll go on and talk about this and not realize it, even though, is it just because I'm close enough to know, like, "Well, I kind of played that role before, so I can comment on it," even though I know the people investigating it don't even have, don't even have all the information, and they, they, they're literally investigating it right now and they're still putting everything together. So it's, what is it about humans that we, we'll drop those lenses, we, we won't realize, we won't put those filters on when it's something that affects us?

Yeah, because there's a competition to be the one that drops your seed into somebody for procreation. I mean, if you want to know the really simplest answer about this, it's that there are tribal mechanics at work and you don't even know them anymore because you've been, you know, asking for a number three and super-sizing a clown's mouth for so long that you forgot that. But all of us have a role. Crooks had a role. And, and what was going on is in his life, he was searching for something he couldn't find one way, so he found an alternative. And, and did he succeed? Well, in a lot of ways he did. And I don't mean anything about his attempted assassination, I mean about his socialization. So, so, so when you're in your family and you're constantly being berated, uh, uh, "You don't make enough money and you don't do this, and you know there," and somebody goes, "Well, you know, that's why somebody blows tops, that's why somebody commits suicide." Yeah, but, but that's the end of the spectrum. Everything's this big long spectrum. I went and got gas today and somebody goes, "Hey, nice car." Holy [expletive], that made the rest of my day, Brian. I, I went and ordered a sandwich, and not only did you get a sandwich, but those barbecue or sea salt chips were amazing. Or I did my, uh, uh, you know, uh, uh, whatever and I got some sort of feedback. We don't understand how much that in a day-to-day environment is crucial to us. And so what happens is we get it from social media, and we seek out sites that give us a return on our investment, whether it's pornographic, or whether it's, uh, you know, people, uh, uh, uh, sniping other people and commenting and being rude and being mean, or the breakdown. Now I can watch a video breakdown and then type in, "Wow, I saw that," or, "Man, that's good." And now I feel the same, uh, uh, level as if I'm with those guys in that group. "And that one guy was a Seal, Brian! Holy [expletive]! And that one guy said he was a sniper! And I agreed with him!" So that kind of feedback we're now getting in a different manner. The problem with it is flash-to-bang, the speed within which we're getting it, because it doesn't allow us to give ourselves a gift of time and distance and slow things down and think about it. Because if I would have said it at the kitchen table, my dad would have punched me right in the mouth. He would have knocked me out of that chair if I would have been different politically or religiously or said something off color or done that. I would have known immediately that I was on the wrong path because we are in small groups, then we went to work in our cubicles, then we drove in our car in society with a bunch of other people in their cars. It's just faster now. So we have to take that into account. So not only is the information faster, but the release of the endorphins are faster. So now my electrochemical neurotransmitters, I don't have to wait around to get out my kit and find a vein and do the heroin. Now all I got to do is go online and throw a table, you know, through the window and go, "Hey, [expletive], I'm here!" And I get that feedback. And, Brian, I can do that on my phone while I'm driving! Right? And, and that's problematic because our emotional selves hasn't caught up with our intellectual selves yet.

So, what you're saying then is it's, it's, it's almost, um, even though we know, like, "Okay, yeah, I, I, I start posting on social media, I get a bunch of likes and comments." Okay, that, that obviously gets that little bit of dopamine, I get a reward. Okay, that, that, that's cool, I'm going to repeat that behavior, and then it sort of becomes a habit, right? And a lot of, a lot, I think a lot of, a lot of the stuff is, um, people just end up, you know, your baseline has shifted so much from what you think normal is, you just, you're just on there all the time, you're doing this, and, and it becomes, becomes habit. And so now you're seeking that out, you know, and, and but you're almost, what it sounds like, saying to me is that it's, it's even sort of deeper than that. Like the, the mechanism that we use now is tapping into a psychological and sociological imperative for all humans, and it's, it's filling a void that, that has, that, that needs to be filled. Like it's not just some pleasure or, "Oh, you know, everyone wants to say, 'Oh, you that person's just full of themselves, they got a big ego.'" Well, everyone has an ego, and I don't use that term negatively. I, I use it just, just, all you're concerned about yourself and your feelings more than you recognize, I think, is what you're getting at. So this, this, in one, well, one interaction, social interaction in any form, is, is a necessity for all humans. I mean, you know, the, the, the loner term is, is so, I think it's just bad language, um, because a lot of people they call, like, "Oh, they're, it's a lone wolf or they no one knew or they're off." It's like, no, if they were a lone wolf, they'd be living up in the mountain somewhere and you never see them or hear from them because they're good, they don't want to, they don't want that interaction, they want to be left alone. Uh, uh, these people actually, the ones who carry out attacks, like they do want that interaction, and they're not getting it in some manner, or they're not being heard in some way. They're going to, and they don't have it. So it's like, so it's, they're not a loner, they're, they, they've been, they've, they've self-identified, you know, they've self-diagnosed as this category, but, and, and that's what's causing sort of this, this issue why they, why they lash out. It's like, you know, the Kazinski with, with sending the, the letters out, and then his brother reading, "Go, I've heard this before, that's my brother Ted." And it's, it's, uh, uh, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold at Columbine. While the shooting was going on, their parents called into the sheriff station and not to, to say, "I think it's my kid." Ethan Crumbley, when the parents found out that there was a shooting at the school, they called and said, "I think it's my son." What happened with Crooks? Right? His parents found out there's a shooting and they go, they called the police and said, "I think it's my kid." So it's, and, and these are the things that we focus on. And I know we'll get into that in detail in a separate episode. And I think there's a good way to set that up, we just want to wait and verify a few things and wait until some more stuff comes out. Um, so we can present that, what we, what we, what we're, what we're suspecting based on the evidence we've seen so far. Um, but it's, it's, um, the way we discuss these things and the language we use is, is becomes misleading, and then we sort of attribute things to that. And now we, we, we sort of dog pile on and, "Oh, yeah, and then I bet, you know, he couldn't get a girlfriend and he couldn't do that." It's like, yeah, well, these were all contributing factors. You know, maybe he had a chemical imbalance too his whole entire life that led, that started when he was a little kid and led him down this path. Like, or, or then they also had this. But, but we focus on who the target was and what his motive, what political party did they belong to. And it's like, look, like you're, you're that, that's inconsequential, that doesn't matter. It matters, like, in terms of investigation to figure out was this part of a bigger plan? Like, was this something by some other nation-state or was this a conspiracy carried out by a group of individuals? Yes, that, that you have to determine in his investigation. So you look into what the motive was. But, but for, for stuff like this, it's like, none of that matters. This is a broken human being again who, who carried this thing out and, and felt like this. So what we do is we sort of conflate all these issues and throw them together and then go, "Well, who benefits from this?" It's like, "Well, stop for a second and go with what you, what you, what you can prove and what we know and, and that's a smaller box." And, and we're not happy with that. And, and so I see this with, with every situation and it just blows my mind, it frustrates me. And I, this, this is why I also stay off social media a lot because, like you even brought it up, just everyone keeps reposting the same [expletive] like that. I mean, yes, I know I do pattern recognition for a living and so I probably see more patterns than most people do because that's what I, that's what I do for a living. But it's like I scroll through and it's like, "This is all the same thing. The last 67 posts I went by were basically almost identical." But, but how can you think that that's new?

That's what we're talking about in this episode. You think that that's a form of validation? You made a mixtape with songs that somebody else wrote and recorded and you gave them to somebody and said, "This is my life." What? You sent a passage from a book that another author wrote, Brian. I'm just saying, let's go historically here and put things in —

Yeah, no, I like these examples.

— perspective. So look, prolonged periods of isolation can lead to mental health issues. That's true. Being a loner has nothing to do with that. That's a completely different thing. But we conflate them. Then all of a sudden, I've got friends and you've got friends that said, "Hey, look, the fix is in." "Well, tell me about that." "Well, there's just too many things that happened on this one incident for me to think that they were all random." And I say, "Second Law of Thermodynamics," and they go, "No, no, no, don't start with your entropic period and this and the theory." And I go, "Why? You don't want me to interrupt your [expletive] with science, Brian?" There's a reason every one of these things happened. If my dad used to say it this way, he said, "If the dog wouldn't have stopped to take a piss, he would have caught the rabbit." And it took me 13 years to figure out that my dad was a human behavior profiler, that he understood situations better than I ever would in my life because he looked at the situation and instead of putting things together in an awkward, Frankensteinian fashion and welding them together, Dad looked at him at 360 and he said, "Let's take a look. What's really happening here?" And he rolled it around, Brian. That's all I think that we're saying here is that some people get the immediate gratification from being seen as some sort of expert in their field, and that can become the cause of them wanting to repeat that behavior even though that behavior is no longer necessary for the survival of the tribe.

And, and we don't, um, as humans, really understand randomness very well. And we, even though the world, the world is, is more connected in a sense now, um, you know, remember they used to do like the, what was it, the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon or something like that, where they take any actor and go, "Well, this actor was in a movie with this person who was with this person who was in," and it all leads back to like Kevin Bacon. Like, and it's funny because it's like, yes, that's, that's how the world is. Just because, like, like I have phone numbers and contacts in my phone, and this is nothing about me, this is just that people that I have met, met before and discussed, and they would go, "Oh, yeah, I remember you, Brian," who are one phone call away. That person could pick up a phone and call Donald Trump. The other person could pick up a phone and call Barack Obama. Like, that doesn't mean I have any connection to those two people whatsoever. So even though there's, there's one person that could link me to that person, that doesn't mean I can call up and get them on the phone. It just means that's who I've come across in life and events have coalesced where those people around other people and that changes this. And then now you're suddenly one thing, way. Like, you know, my buddies and I were talking about it when I was back visiting, um, my family in Chicago for the Fourth. Like, I went to the first high school I went to was with comedian, uh, John Mulaney. And like, he's a year ahead of me, and like, one of the stories that went viral that like, from one of his stand-ups, like, that was about me, my friends. And that was like, my one buddy, uh, is still pissed about it, and it's like, "That guy, he got off on our story, blah, blah, blah." I was like, "Well, no, he made a joke out of it." But like, that doesn't mean that, you know, it doesn't mean anything besides that. It's like, you, you happen to have this interaction that, that was, that person was connected somewhere else in, somewhere in some other fashion. There's no, there's no, there's no connective fiber. It's, it's a random occurrence that coalesces when the events occur. Like, if, if Crooks had got a flat tire on the way to that thing, we would not be discussing this right now. And, and you know what? He would have gone, maybe he would have gone, "I missed my chance," and never did, did that, never did it again, never did it to anyone else, never tried that again. Like, and, and we're not, the, the part that fascinates me is, um, you know, why we're not okay with that? Like, why can I not accept that? Why is that not enough for me to go, "Wow, that's, that's crazy how these things coalesce." Um, one shift in the wind or turn the head change the outcome of events, even though I just saw it. I just saw it where if Trump had turned his head, he'd be dead right now, assassinated on television. Like that. And I can say, "Oh, that's, that's divine intervention," or something, whatever you want to attribute that to. But, but then when it's looking at how this event unfolded, I don't, I don't use that same logic. I don't use that same way of looking at things.

You went to a carnival with your kids and allowed carny folk to put them on a ride that may or may have not been tested because they wanted to, and said, "Daddy, Daddy, let me go on the ride," and you stood by it. It was just cruising down the highway 10 minutes before that.

Yeah, exactly. And it's leaking oil now.

Uh, and, and you stood by when it rackety-boomed the kids around and, you know, you were a little afraid of the things that might have happened there, but you did it consciously knowing what the risks were because you were willing to weigh those risks. The difference is, in the moment we tend to do those things whereas when we look at big picture stuffs, we still think these things are somehow within our control, talking about them, but they're out of our control. There's something that we had nothing to do with, but we want to give our opinion because I can go home and sleep. I can go home that night and know that's not going to happen to me. Those people, I would have been able to pick them out. "Look, those stupid cops! That guy over there yells in the bit!" You have no idea what the noise levels were, you have no idea where they were standing. The camera is not the perfect eye, but we're willing to comment on it because we want to be part of the team. We don't want to be that person that's not allowed into Studio 54. We don't want to be that person that's so far back in line that they never get interviewed or have a chance at the gosh darn sweepstakes. We want to be relevant, and that's the fight now. The fight now is, can we still be relevant if nobody knows me? You know, the biggest insults: "flyover states." "Wow, the gang of deplorables." When we use that stuff, what does it do? Do you understand how that works? So I need you to read my opinion, Brian. I, I even though it's opinion-based testimony, I want you to associate my words with something positive or negative. I'll tell you, I'll tell you to stop being a snowflake and stop letting everything hurt your feelings and don't be so offended. But then when you call where I live a "flyover state," I get crushed and I get upset.

Absolutely. But that, that's, that's the part that, like, is, that's what, that's what I love about humans. That's, that's everything. That right there is everything. It's, you know, it's like you, you, you, the, the problem is the problem, but the problem is also, like, if you're recording yourself doing a rant in a truck, like, about everything, like, you're, you're the issue. You're not understanding it. Like, that, that's the problem. And, and which is fine. Like, I don't, I'm not, this is not a, a judgment on any of these things because we all engage in this behavior in some manner, like, we because it fulfills a need. It fulfills a, a need that's been with humans since humans. I can't just live in that cave alone. I can fish, I can hunt, that's great. But then I see Ugglu and Mukar across the road, I gotta go and engage them. And, and then I engage them and, guess what? I felt pretty good and I slept better last night because the, the saber-tooth tiger didn't come in the cave because Ugglu stayed up to watch the television and he chased it out. That need, what, what it forms is a bond. And that bond is hardwired into humans. And, guess what? When it came to Crooks, Crooks wanted to feel that too. And he wanted to feel that so much that he bought a ladder and he scouted things out and he trained. And he used the, uh, you know, so, guess what, Brian? He used unconventional methods to achieve the same thing that you achieve on social media every day.

And, and you know what? Can we fault the kid for that? He was 20. Did he know better? Yeah, kind of. But, but he was just acting out the role we wrote for him.

This is not something that, like, like people are still trying to figure out, like he's not, he's not, he's confused. That's, but that's with any of, like, look at, just read any manifesto that anyone has ever written about this stuff. Exact. Like any one of these shooters, and it's all over the place. They have no fundamental understanding. They have no specific ideology and intent. They rarely do, unless it's like —

He held down the job, he had friends. Come on!

So, so did, so did Elliot Rodger. Right? I, I, I mean, you're hitting something now, and that's for a future episode, folks. The point here is that the inevitability comes from the hardwired psychopathy of humans, and we all repeat those behaviors because they're in our best interest when we are growing up and we haven't evolved past them.

So, so what, what can, what can I do, you know, given everything we talked about, and given the, um, context and how communication is. Like, how, how can I regulate that? Like, because me, I'm the, it's, it's like I have to stay off this [expletive] site for the next week. And but it's, that's even me knowing how this stuff works, it's hard for me to, to sort of accept it or go through it because I just get bombarded with it. Now, the memes, the funny stuff, oh, please, if you're sending, those of you out there who have been sending me that [expletive], hilarious, I love it because it's, it's, it's great. It that that showed the sense of humor. But, um, but when it comes to this, I'm going to make a comment, it's kind of like I'm super hesitant. I mean, you've even seen me in class where people lay stuff out and I was like, "Look, based on what you're saying, but it sounds like there's more, uh, let me caveat that with a few things. Here's why I'm, I'm arriving at that." Like, so what, what can I do to get, is there anything I can do if I'm listening to this right now, to like, to, to get better at it or filter it or, or do something? I mean, to, to help gain just, just help gain a better perspective on, uh, what it is that I'm ingesting? What is this information that I'm ingesting?

So I would say start with you first. And, and, and I'm telling everybody, start with yourself first. I don't know if that's proper grammar. And what I mean by that is that you've got to take a look —

Detroit Public School grammar.

Exactly. What's the necessity of the comment that you're about to make or write or post? What, what, what's the urgency? Is there a purpose to it? Now, if that purpose is that you want to rant and vent, then it's okay because if you don't rant and vent and write or, you know, making a video or do something like that, you're going to blow top and that's not healthy. If it's going to be inciting somebody to get up and work towards cleaning up the river, I would say that you're probably on the right track. If it's inciting somebody to come up and just be civil disobedient, to be a classic, you know, uh, uh, obstructionist, I would say you're probably on the wrong, uh, uh, uh, direction. Your attitude and emotions and, uh, ability to blend in with other human society is for a purpose. It's for you to live out a long life and procreate and everybody to get along. DEI when it's forced is [expletive]. DEI when it occurs naturally in socialization is always a wonderful thing. Take a look around you. So what you got to do is you got to disconnect once in a while. You got to take the phone and shut it off. You got to put it away. You got to read a different magazine. You got to sit down with a couple of people at the coffee shop and talk about things. And what I mean is opening the aperture. Because what you've allowed is you allowed the last few years of social media to narrow your focus and your perspective. And when I narrow my focus and my perspective, I can't get out of my own way. I'm so trapped. Look how many times do we say, "Thinking outside the box"? Dude, there's a lot of great [expletive] in the box, and we're handing out flashlights.

Yeah, but go back to that white belt curiosity.

And when you're a white belt, you're learning so much more than you do when you're a black belt. And if that makes — that's how I live my life, Brian. Look, I'm an opinionated son of a [expletive]. I know a lot of [expletive]. But you know why I don't go on social media, folks? I have a LinkedIn site and every Monday I drop "It Happened On A Monday," and I comment on other people's sites. Why? Because I'm trying to make money by broadening my appeal and exposure in my brand so a new client will go, "Holy [expletive], this guy might know what he's talking about." The reason we're on The Human Behavior Podcast is because we're trying to open your aperture, we're not trying to close it. Yeah. So, so Brian, that would be my answer. And I know, I know it felt convoluted, but I hope you can see my, my primary goal is that social media can work either way. Don't let it have a pendulous effect. Sometimes you need to disconnect.

And I think you actually hit the nail on the head, which would be my answer to my own question or my advice to people when you said, "Start, start with you." And so it's like a lot of people are just doing things and repeating these behaviors out of habit, and this is what it's become.

Yep.

And there's, like, there's almost no intent behind it because it's just something you've done. And if you don't know your own intent behind why you're doing something, then, then you, that's, that's where you need to think about it. It's like, what is the point of, of this that I'm trying to make? And that's even ingesting the information too. Like, I don't, like you said, part of the reason why people say so much stuff is because language actually is only so much, and you can only base so much on words. And, and so because this is based that, because this mass communication is based on just lines of text, I have to, I infer a lot of things. And, and I may be wrong about that. And so I don't get someone's intent. But if I look at it and go, "What, what is your intent with this? What are you really trying to say or what are you trying to get across or really trying to do?" Um, it helps me well because I do that when I'm on these apps because it goes, "Alright, this person has no idea what their intent is. They're just, they're just on transmit. They're just blasting [expletive] out there." Other, espec — well, especially if you look at like a political ad or something like that, there's a clear intent and a clear message behind those. Are great examples to use to go, "Okay, this is a profile of something that is deliberate, and there's an intent behind it, and they're trying to get me to think, act, behave or whatever in a certain manner." So it's, it's, it's very, very, very, uh, um, deliberate. And so it's great to see that because it's, it's a great comparison to something like, "Well, then what's this over here? Huh? Just someone spouting off nonsense," like, or, or, or, you know, speaking off the cuff. Like, because, like, we even when we're doing The Human Behavior Podcast, like, we, we at least have an intent behind an episode. We may not spell it out explicitly on purpose. We might, we might just keep it like implicit with what we're talking about and let the listener kind of take it where they want to because there's certain topics and certain, yep, um, certain subjects that we do that because you, we want to make it personal to you. And sometimes it's very clear saying like, "Hey, this is what we believe, this is why we believe it, here's some evidence to support that claim, this is what you can do with it." And so that, that intent and being deliberate, I, I think is, is, you know, more relevant now than it ever has been because it, it helps, helps keep the message clear. I guess that would be my, my takeaway from it too, Greg. I don't know if you have, um, anything —

Just a few things. Shannon West, uh, shout out to Shannon West and his wife, keep doing the great stuff you're doing. Thanks for being a fan. Same thing, Cassie out in Montrose, uh, love, love. Thanks for being such a fan. Brian, Tila won the Watershed, first and third, two different horses, uh, during the, the rodeo. Uh, Lanny didn't win the money on roping and, and so Lanny's pissed, he's right down the hill, that's what the dog was, uh, barking at, his Lanny's loading up the horses to go roping. So lots happened in Gunnison over the last couple of weeks, folks. And, and this attempt assassination shouldn't change the rest of your world, man. There's a lot of things that are going to happen and we can come back from anything. We're resilient. We're humans. Uh, uh, go out and be curious today. Find something new.

Yeah, I'm actually very fascinated and interested in this sort of moment in time and how things have shifted rapidly over the last couple years coming out of COVID and, and just different things that are, things that are falling by the wayside, finally, that should, and things that are, are now being discussed and, and ways that are being discussed are changing. So I actually look at all these things as, you know, it's, it's, well, it's danger and opportunity, right? It's, I've heard that somewhere. Was a, um, uh, yeah. So, one other thing to, to listeners, too: there is, no matter what podcast player you're, you're listening to this on or watching, there, there actually should be, there's a little thing on there that says, "Send us a text message." You can kind of respond or say something about the episode. I can't, we can't respond directly back to you. That's for our Patreon subscribers. So, so you can always find out more. There's a link in there too, it says "support show" or says "Patreon," and you can, we, we do a lot more on there and answer any questions people have when you reach out to us. So there's always that on there, but there is a little thing for, for feedback. I love getting feedback from the stuff and we, we don't get, you know, we get feedback or we get comments from the people that have been following us, but, like, you know, just the, the random ones, I always like too. I always want to know how that stuff comes across. So we would appreciate it if you, if you reach out there. Um, shout out to, uh, uh, Richard Simmons. Um, brought a lot of, lot of joy to, to lives and Brian, I used to, I used to diet. Richard Simmons came up with a, a cop diet that he did with Weight Watchers and some other people. I used that when I was a copper, man. The vest was getting a little tight and, you know, I, I sweated to the Oldies because they weren't Oldies to me, you know what I'm saying? And also —

Also, famous, famous sex therapist Dr. Ruth died. I think she's like 95 or 96. Woman probably, I hope she died getting railed. I honestly hope she was still in the sack.

No, because she was cool too. She was a, she was a pioneer, you know.

So I'm pretty sure people weren't, weren't, weren't, weren't, weren't talking about, and, uh, hey, there's a lot of ways of dying in bed. That's a good one. Just remember that. A lot of really shitty ways of dying in bed. Bob Saget. I'm just saying, think about it.

That's going, Jesus, at least you're not angry anymore.

That's, that's going on your business card. There's a lot of shitty ways to die in bed. Exactly. So that's going on your tombstone, that's your epitaph right there. So I think on that note, Bob Saget, uh, that, uh, if, if thanks everyone for tuning in, we appreciate it. There's always, there's always room for for Jell-O. There's always more. So, uh, uh, follow the links and find out more, but we appreciate you tuning in and don't forget that training changes behavior.