Memory Is Fiction

Alright Greg, we'll go ahead and get started here today. We're going to be talking about memory and how it influences—well, how it gets influenced and how it influences us and our recall, and then our behavior, and how we interpret events, especially.

For this one, I want to kind of use one of the Lessons Learned that you had written before. There's a lot in there, and a reminder to the folks that you can check that out if you're a Patreon subscriber and read the entire thing. But there's a bunch of topics within memory and the problems with our memory that I want to talk about today. We're going to get into things like recall and the different external influences on our memory, and false memories, and fundamental attribution errors, and memory-emotion links—all these things. Because the point of this discussion in a sense, or some of the takeaways, is I want to know how I create more accurate memories. Can I fix what we'll call "memory distortions," things that are wrong, like corrupt file folders? Because we all have those different things where I remember it this way, and then you come in, and you're like, "Hey, what about this?" And it's like, "Oh, I remember it this way," or "I thought it happened that way." There's a lot that we'll get into that influences it.

The reason too is it's really good if I can, one, obviously create accurate memories from which to draw from, and then fix sort of those distortions for a clearer picture. It allows me to actually get better at reading and sensing and understanding my environment, and then recalling smaller details that can be very important that don't seem important at the time. Does that make sense what I mean there?

But I want to at least start, Greg, with—again, you wrote a Lessons Learned, kind of specifically talking about memory, and then you get some great examples throughout here that I know we'll use a couple. But you should definitely read it if you're a Patreon subscriber because we've all had these different things before where our recall was incorrect, even over time. Even with quotes and what famous people do and say gets misattributed all the time. So it's just a fascinating way of how our memory really influences things and how that can be distorted. But I think we'll start with you, Greg, on a reading part of that, and then we'll kind of jump into the topics if that works.

Yeah, that sounds great. We're going to be reading from Lessons Learned Volume 23 today. Lots of great photos as well for the Patreon subscribers, and you can read the whole thing. I'll just start with "Making Lasting Memories, or Making Memories Last."

"Distortions of memory are so common as to be the rule rather than the exception, and you should challenge every eyewitness that testifies against you and confront any friend who reminds you of an incident you recall differently. There's a good chance one of you are mistaken. I got myself into hot water plenty of times when I inserted Shelly into a happy memory that occurred BS, or Before Shelly. Certainly, you've made a similar mistake. Confirmation bias allows you to swap your current significant other for the other person you're trying to forget, and soon a new memory replaces the old inside your head. The modified memory becomes your new reality. Your brain impacts the fidelity of a memory by incorporating emotion, perspective, and bias. Without proper training, that impact can be adverse. Whether you consciously or unconsciously distort a memory, the replacement memory will be the one that you recall. Memories are designed to be self-serving, not an accurate historical record of your life. That's an important standard. Each time you access that memory, it becomes vulnerable to new external influences. When you're done with that memory, those influences have modified that original memory 'file folder.' Electrochemical neurotransmitters at a synaptic cleft act like a librarian, accepting this new, improved memory and then encoding it for relevance, awaiting future recall. Memories also help us free up essential operating space in the brain by clustering similar information. Memories that have memory and emotion links allow us to use the theory of 'close enough,' equating information that's relevant to the current or future operations, rather than us having to relive every life experience as if the incident was new or novel. Template matches occur when the memory is exact, like a one-to-one photograph of identical items. A prototypical match occurs when the information presented illustrates the typical qualities of the original item or impression.

Correcting False Memories: When you're archiving information for potential future use, you distill the incident into usable chunks. These bits of information are tucked away in a series of common or 'prototype' file folders so that you can retrieve them faster. The information will be more accurate when you link them to emotion like fear, hate, anger, or a smell, touch, taste, sound. Each time they're accessed, your memory undergoes an update where your brain chooses to purge duplicitous or irrelevant information. In my memory, I had replaced someone else with Shelly because I wanted Shelly to have been the one with me during all those beautiful and happy occurrences.

Let's talk about finally, Fundamental Attribution Errors: The reality of a flawed memory and imperfect first impression leading to distorted recall is more easily understood if you take attribution errors into account. Our egos and personalities act as filters applied when making judgments about folks we meet. Humans tend to overly value our own personality-based explanations for the behavior of others that we encounter, and we undervalue the potential external factors that likely account for the observed behavioral traits. Assuming what is occurring by basing it on your personal experiences, rather than investigating the actual reason someone behaves in a certain manner, doesn't automatically serve a purpose to your brain, your working memory, your long-term memory. This alone is an essential reason to adopt the 'baseline plus anomaly equals decision' architecture. When you don't have a comparison for behavior and you fail to measure that behavior against a baseline of known or suspected behaviors in a similar incident, then you've created a situation ripe for memory distortion or misapplication."

So that's the kind of intro to everything that you kind of then dove into on that Lessons Learned. But just within that, I one, I wanted to share that with everyone because there's so much that we can pull apart in there. I like the way some of you know you summed this up in some of these examples, especially the inserting the Shelly into the into a memory that didn't happen. I've done that before with Mika (Mika Marren) where it's like, "Oh man, yeah, I love this place. Remember when we went here, and we had that great meal?" And she's like, "Yeah, I've never been here before. That wasn't me." And I'm like, "Okay, I guess dinner is not going to be very good tonight. My bad." We've done that. Remember, it was actually comical, I won't say who we were working with, but when we were over in Ireland, and I think we hadn't been either—while I'd grown my hair out, and you kept calling me, you know, Will instead of Brian, because it was a throwback to teaching. It was like, you know, you—it was just clearly once you did it, it was like in your loop, and you couldn't do it in the middle of the moment you were teaching. So you kept calling me Will. And then, you know, guys are coming up to me doing the—I was like, they're like, "You know, you're trying to say, hey, his name's really Brian, it's not Will." "I'm sorry, I keep calling him Will." And they did that, "Yeah, sure it is. I'm sure his name is really Brian. We're hiding something, hiding something." And I'm like, "Uh, this isn't going well."

But I'm always fascinated with memory and with recall, and how we draw conclusions because it's obviously so heavily influenced by our memory and what we know. You even got into, which is why I love this just this intro part, because you talked about memory-emotional links and prototypical matches. This is how it is. You're like, you said, your brain doesn't want to relearn every experience and every novel situation. It wants to just draw on what it knows. But the problem is what we know is never a clear picture. It's never something that has all of the detail. The brain wants the major muscle movements. "Give me the takeaways, give me the highlights. I just want to read the abstract and I got it from there." I mean, that's really how it is because the details don't matter as much when it comes to survival, because our brain is survival-based. It matters in court testimony on someone going to jail, but the problem is we're not good at that part. We're not good at those details, and certainly not as well or certainly not as good as we think we are. And so, one of the things you said in here, "Memories are designed to be self-serving, not an accurate historical record of your life." Can you kind of clarify that or go into detail on what you mean by that?

Yeah, thanks for picking that out. You went into like five different places that we got to touch very briefly before we do that. We will. The first thing is, you talk about the operating brain. In other words, the brain that I'm using when I'm moving around through my environment. But then we have cognition, the dynamic exchange of that information from our environment bouncing off the file folders in our brain. What's that for? That's to prevent my operating brain from getting us into trouble. So now we got operating brain and then cognition. After that, we have memory, and after that, we have recall. So we're constantly forming new memories of the memories that are around us and updating the information so for future recall, we can use the newest version. That's an important standard because you just, you can't not make a memory.

Memories can occur, rather, intentionally and deliberately, where you're saying, "[unintelligible] that's important, okay?" Or they can occur naturally when you walk by something and go, "Ooh, piece of candy." And then even idly, when you're sitting around your home and the wind blows outside and creates a sound that maybe you haven't heard before, or you associate with a UPS driver coming up a dirt road, whatever that is, this is constantly in motion. Your brain, while decoding, is constantly using imagery, visual, sound, taste, smell, and it's examining it, comparing it, processing it, assimilating it into the existing file folders or they coalesce to create a new file folder. While you're sitting there, those file folders are comparing each other, "Hey, I got a piece of candy here," and the other guy goes, "No, no, Pez isn't considered candy." And another file folder is going, "Hell yeah, it is!" That's constantly going on inside your head. Brian, your operating brain isn't considering that; that's the background motion of your file folders and your file cabinets, making sure that the next memory you need is ready and it's accurate. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah. No, no, I get what you're saying. It caches essential information. You know that's what it's just like on your computer. You don't, so I have a Mac, and it uploads everything to the iCloud. So what'll happen is if I don't go into a folder for a really long time, it automatically has uploaded that to save space on my physical hard drive and the operating system for the computer. So I literally have to go, "No, no, that's an old document I haven't opened in two years, but I need to download that." And it takes a second. It has to download it from the cloud, you know. But the idea is it's kind of similar to how your brain works. And since there's only so much—I heard a great example, I don't know where it came from, but it was like the college campus library example. You go to a college campus, they always have massive libraries, you know, there's historical texts in there, all kinds of different stuff. You can find almost every book imaginable. But because there are so many of the same classes that require the same books every single year, you could take 10% of it, put it right at the front, and that would be like 90% of the traffic in that library. You don't ever really go back deep into there unless you're going for something specific. It's the same thing. So it's like it caches everything upfront for that recall.

And then what you kind of broke it down is too, is sort of like the operating brain versus the cognitive side of things. So I would look at it as that that cache is sort of like that operating brain, "What do I need right now?" And then, you know, when we have the time or I'm doing something specific, I can go deeper into those rows. I can go back into that far corner that you know I haven't been in the library before or haven't been in a really, really, really long time and go, "Oh yeah, there's some great stuff here. I haven't—we got to dust this off and use that." And so, when I look at it that way, it kind of helps me understand why things get sort of thrown at me where I get the solution or the answer—what I think is faster really than that cognitive brain can really work. And it's so survival-based and contextually based that and because of the prototypical matches, it's going to throw in something there that isn't necessarily accurate or isn't necessarily relevant based on those needs.

The other thing is because we talk about the fundamental attribution errors, which you brought up in there, and the different sort of corrupt file folders and imperfect memories, the issue with that is I will get an answer that's close enough, but it might not be the right answer. And I typically see people have more confidence in their memory than they really should. Where it's like, "No, I know I was there." When you see someone say like, "I know what I saw," it's like, I'm not saying you are lying, you're not. You truly 100% believe that is what's happening. That's just not what actually happened. And that that that sort of dissonance there that that's difficult to comprehend and difficult to understand, especially since we—especially humans—we're so visually primed on how we experience the world that we don't like the fact that that color was different on the car that we saw, or that wasn't that number. Those little details don't matter to our brain, but it can matter in certain situations. So that's what makes it so difficult, and I think it's hard for people to kind of kind of see that or understand that sometimes.

So let's discuss space-time very briefly. When you were talking about walking back further into the library, that takes nanoseconds. So while you're embroiled in an argument and a conversation, all of a sudden your mouth says words you're not even thinking of, "And another thing in 1967 when you did, okay?" What's happening is your operating brain is in the moment, but your file folders, they're back there, and your hippocampus is a hippo on campus running through those file cabinets and looking for relevant information. Sometimes it comes up on an empty file folder or a corrupt one, but it can't stop in time because it's throwing those up there so your neocortex can take a look at it and go, "Well, that's a good argument."

Remember, file folders store sense memories, but that's not their only function. They're not just storage facilities. What they're doing is constantly spread-loading the information to the cortical to related file folders so you can make a match when it's not that obvious. And file folders interact with other file folders, creating these relationships that give us additional layers of meaning in emotion. For example, you go to a restaurant. I remember a restaurant that Shelly and I used to love because her parents turned me on to it a long time ago, maybe probably 40 years ago now. I told Sean Clemens, and he took his wife there, and he goes, "Oh, it's really great." And it's called Bruno's. Brian, I hope we get to stop there when we're in Sterling Heights because it's in Madison Heights in Michigan, right down the road. When you first come in, that hint of garlic and a live-played piano just set the ambiance, and you're right next to a freeway, but it's almost as if you've taken a time portal into this Italian-esque bistro cafe that's right on the side of it. It's so relaxing, and you hear the glasses clink, and Bruno comes over and greets you personally. Brian, you can't recreate [unintelligible] like that. What your brain does, because what it does is it combines this new and incoming information to update or clarify information in other file folders, and then, guess what? It creates new file folders for that experience.

So you're exactly right. I got a letter, I think it was from LinkedIn—it's my only social media contact, so I think it was that or Dropbox, which we use sometimes to send big files—and I said, "Hey, by the way, the new standard is if we haven't used it," and ProtonMail does the same thing for those searching for relevance, "It says if you haven't touched this file in a year, we're going to destroy it, and all that information is going to be gone. So make sure that you update that." Well, your brain does that naturally, because it needs that room. And it also puts things together because they look alike or feel alike, not to you, but to your brain. And so that's where that corrupt file folder starts. One, you intentionally or deliberately form a file folder, and that can have corrupt edges which turns into misapplications, or your brain is trying to be very, very helpful and it goes, "Oh, that's a smell. Let's put it in with the smell category." And you don't have editing rights. So what's going to come up in the moment with that operating brain is going to be what's going to come up. You made an excellent argument, "Can we create or fix file folders?" Well, can we create them? Obviously. Can we fix them? Well, that's a little bit harder. So let's start, let's start on—

Because that's a big thing I do want to get to, and I like how you said, you know, you don't have editing rights to it. Your brain gets full creative control on how things are stored, where they go, and it'll move and shift stuff around to fit the needs that it thinks you need, in a sense. And that's all happening, that's unconsciously happening. You don't have too much control over that. So I would say the two things that I did want to get to, and we can bring in everything else we talked about, but the creating accurate memories and fixing memory distortions. So yes, so one, how do I create—we'll say this—how do I create more accurate memories? How can I, in a situation now, I'm listening to this podcast, I'm driving into work, or I'm doing something, and I'm going to head out for the day? What can I do to, in a sense, prime myself or get better at recalling that information and making it making it more clear, more accurate? How do I do that?

Yeah, so two words: Bruce Springsteen. So two more words: "Thunder Road." I know every single word of "Thunder Road" and I could sing it right here in its entirety and not miss a beat. I have no idea why that happened, but I do know what happened. I also know that when I try to rehearse something that I'm going to say, for example, on a podcast or an upcoming training event or a webinar, that I have to sit in a gosh-darn empty room and say it over and over and over like I'm practicing for that Presbyterian play in fourth grade. And still I got to yell out for a little bit of assistance. Why? Because those memories, the ones that we're trying to catalog, they're so, they're not sticky. What do I mean by they're not sticky? Because a memory and emotion become sticky.

I can't not remember the first time Nico got stitches, the first time I had to take Andrea to the hospital for an appendectomy, and it was an emergency appendectomy, we thought she was going to die. That that horrific incident with Shelly in California [unintelligible] to take her to the emergency room. Brian, those are etched in my memory like a Flintstones tablet with that bird, you know, ch ch ch ch, carving the words in there, and they're never going to go away. Now they're easier to deal with now, seeing Py (presumably a nickname for someone) a couple of months ago when she was really thick in the hospital in Detroit, and then seeing her now, that revelation, that information, becomes sticky, and I can recall it instantly because it's so memory-based. In other words, my brain knows that that's—

I like to go back to emotion-based. It's emotion-based.

It's emotion-based. Yeah.

And so, and we talked about that before about memory-emotion links and how highly emotional situations, whether that's fear or anger or something funny or a song you like. You watch one hilarious comedy movie, and you're repeating all the lines for the next year because it creates that memory faster. So we turn that into a business, Brian, because what we do, we take Peter Griffin or we take Mort from the pharmacy, and what we do is every time we're talking about a specific topic where somebody made a mistake, an error—in this, it was a driving, the tax stripper, whatever else—we use that "Family Guy-ism" or a "Greg-ism" or a "Brian-ism" and put it in there. And we actually send that to each other via text rather than the gosh-darn news story. And then the next thing we send is the news story. Why do we do that, Brian? Because we're trying to catalog certain memories into a file that we can recall. So, for example, you and I both have a file on school shooters. You and I both have a file on serial killers, on targeted attacks, and we can recall that information while we're in the moment in the middle of an eight-hour presentation that we're doing. And people go, "Hey, your recall is uncanny!" No, it's not. I've been up in front of a class before and made a big boo-boo. What it is is I've rehearsed it enough that that portion of my skull and memory I can regurgitate on recall when I need.

That's the emotion-memory link that you're talking about to making it sticky versus just trying to memorize some dry information or studying for an exam, which doesn't mean anything. But it does, and your brain kind of knows it. It's like, look, just going to go recall this for some test, like that's not very important. There's no—but if I—and so what you're saying is what we do as well is we've talked about this before, but putting that that emotional part of the message—that's why the political messages are so emotional in these times, or what they're trying to do. And it's trying to anger you. Why? Because, well, one, anger is a great, great motivator. You can motivate a lot of people using anger. And two, getting that emotional response and attaching that message to it, that's going to make the information sticky, so you're going to be able to recall that better. And so that can be done in a number of ways, right? So it can be funny, it can be sad, it can be happy, whatever whatever it is, you want to match that up so it's congruent and that your brain categorizes it for recall. And that's the thing, the more emotion you can attach to something, the better, the more you're going to remember it. Now, it'll still be the—the details will still be rough, right? It's going to be rough around the edges, but you're going to remember more of that event. Everyone—that's why the whole everyone can say like, "Oh, I know exactly where I was on 9/11," or when the Challenger exploded, or when JFK was shot and killed. Like those are so profound to our culture here in the US, especially, that people will remember. They can recall what they were doing that day where they couldn't tell you anything about the time around that. So that that's the that's the powerful emotion part. So if you're saying I can utilize that in in my [unintelligible] so that I can create better memories or—

Yeah, but I'm also saying you can use that to fix damaged memories. But I'm also saying that you have an extra job. Your job is to, as a human, your job is to understand that memory and recall are two different things. Your memory is the file folder that we're talking about. Your recall is the ability to utilize information from within that to solve complex dilemmas. Two completely different standards. Now, the second part of that is, and or, third if you will, the more information that we add, the more meaning to that memory. So that increases our ability to use the information at a future event. So when you, here we go again, when you think that recoil makes you a better shooter or that the smell of decaying flesh is going to improve your performance in a certain event, it's not. That's your job. You have to take those things apart and reintegrate them back into what you want them to be. So that's the problem when people evoke or invoke or use Harry Potter's magic wand and talk about training. The training that you're doing doesn't immediately become a memory unless you make it a profound memory. And then the recall of that in the moment is specious at best.

Look, you can work out at the gym all your life and then still be startled and overwhelmed by a surprise ambush attack. Those things can exist in the same space. That's what we're not talking about. So I'm saying that as we create cognitive fidelity inside the brain, that's equally as important as doing a curl, a push-up, running and gunning on the range. And we're not there yet as a human culture. Because because what we say is, "Let's engage active listening." Well, that's a good bullet point, Brian, but none of us do it, because what we're doing is we're going, "Hmm, I've got that and another thing moment," or "My memory that I want to insert, and I want to talk about myself. I want to snipe your comments and insert mine." Well, why is that happening? That's happening because our ego is very important, not to the world around us, but to us. And we think that our inflated or elevated position within the tribe is hugely important. And that's why we update file folders wrong. We always put ourselves at the center. We always think we're the ones that make the difference.

So that that that's that that's a good point on kind of how they become corrupt, because because, you know, we were talking about how do I how do I improve, how do I create more accurate memories? And obviously, we, you know, we talk about the emotion-based stuff, and how to, you know, listening versus doing something versus actually participating. And then what you're talking about there is like we all, human beings, I don't care who you are, have a very egocentric viewpoint. It's how we've survived as humans, right? We have to look out for ourselves, otherwise we we probably would have died a long time ago. But the idea is, you know, so when when we do, especially even the recall or thinking of something, you know, it's always that sort of center of of we're the protagonist in our in our life, in our story. That's how it works. And so if I recall things that way, it's sort of already putting that sort of bias on it, and it's already clouding how I look at things. And so it's if if I just always make it about me, you know, then then it it can be difficult to, you know, use that information when when it's necessary.

So, for example, I was showing the "Insurgent" (a fictional character or scenario) when Max was even younger, he was only a few months old. He like, "Okay, like this is, you know, how you, you know, one thing you have to worry about is he's moving around now, he's going to put everything in his mouth. So babies can choke, right? And this is how you can, you know, if he's choking, this is what it'll look like if it'll sound like, and if it's still coughing, it's fine. And then this is what you can do." And I showed her, I was holding Max, and then she's like, "Okay, got it." And I was like, "All right, here." And I literally handed her the baby. And I was like, "Stick your finger in his mouth and see what that's like." And she's like, "What?" I was like, "Yeah, he'll be fine." And so she's like, you know, putting your finger, then he's like doing this, like, "What the hell are you doing, man? Like, this is annoying, right?" And like, so she's like, "Uh." I was like, "Yeah, see how it's tough, and he's going to want to squirm and fight back?" I go, "Now, how do you, you know, how how do you do that? How do you hold him over on his stomach and then hit his strike his back like you're supposed?" So he's like, "Okay, well, like this." I was like, "Yeah, now do it." And she's like, "What do you mean, you want me to?" I was like, "Yes." I was like, "I don't want the first time you were doing this to be in an emergency situation. But you see, now you felt the weight. Now you know it, and here's what he's going to do. And instead of having it focus on on her and her actions, I was like, 'Look at the baby. This is what you do. Make it about him, right? See how his, you know, he's moving this way versus his weight's going to come down here. Do it over the bed in case you drop him, then he's just going to fall on your bed.'" And she's like, "Oh, okay, I see now. Practice it." She's like, "You want me to hit him in the back?" I like, "Well, not hard, you know what I mean?" Like, "Lego in his mouth," just exactly right. But I I I I made it like a little scary for her and walked it through it because I wanted that emotional reaction from her to go, "This is odd, this is weird. Like, uh, I'm a little nervous." But but now I'm the being that's sort of the mentor along during that process to show her, to so the relevance was there and the memory was created. I mean, it was just it's just an example that kind of popped in my head right now. Actually, I was talking to Clark about something he did with his kids too where they they were doing the fire drill at the home, and he turned the fire the the smoke detector off, you know, start this loud beeping and like, "Why do you have to do that?" Like, "Because this is what it's going to be like," you know, "You have to know that," you know what I mean? So so there's certain elements that you can add in just just to create enough of an emotional type of reaction when you're tying that information to it. And that will, in a sense, make that memory better, right? It'll make it more accurate.

But let's add a couple of things from the cognitive file. And again, cognitive is the dynamic exchange of information from an environment to that file folder. So let's take what you and Clark did and make it even better. Let's take what you did with the "Insurgent" with Max and make it better. Brian, I would tell you, go to a Home Depot and get a construction paper. It's much cheaper than file folders or index cards of different colors, and get them and get a big black Magic Marker or a colored marker that'll contrast with the those individual pieces. And on each one of them write, "Call 911," "Check airway," "Position baby." Put all the individual steps of the skill that you want to use. Now, also take a pair of scissors, and one is round, and one is square, and one is trapezoidal, and one is a pyramid. I don't want the edges to fit together because you can't solve for X just by making them fit. You see? And what I want to do is I want to flip them over and say, "Now, take a look at those cards and put them in the correct order." And I want to conundrum. I want one card that can fit in more than one place. Well, the "Call 911," if I'm occupied, that may have to wait, or I may have to yell, "Someone go call 911," and have that discussion while you're doing the other discussion. What you just did is you took the physical, the physiological, the psychological, and added them to the cognition of the memory. Now, what you didn't build is emotion, you built fidelity. You built granularity to that emotion or to that memory rather. And so now when you recall, Brian, and each time we update, let's say that six months, then at nine months, then at a year, and 18 months, okay, we're going to review that skill set. "Hey, do you remember that skill set?" Well, guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull those cards out on the manila envelope, the file folder, and we're going to play that game again. And now Max is a little older, so the situation has changed. We're going to update it, Brian. See, the idea is that you're on to something because memory and emotion link is huge. But when we think that memory and emotion link is all, that's like saying memory and recall are the same. So we have to work at it, Brian, we have to go these memories and make them better.

So your example about the index cards but cut up and different colors and, you know, in different shapes with the steps on them. It's not always—well, it's not a linear process. We like to put, as humans, we like to put everything in the linear process, right? We want to say, "Okay, first I do A, then I do B, then I do C." One, that's not how real life situations are always going to play out. Well, simple ones, right? I mean, you know, so and, okay, great, but complex situations don't play out like that. And your brain doesn't need it like that all the time. Meaning, because what you just did—you're, or correct me if I'm wrong here, right? What you just described is sort of deconstructing an event and the steps within the event so that I understand—my brain goes, "Well, they can go in different order sometimes. It doesn't always have to be this then this then this." It's not "A squared plus B squared equals C squared." That's great for a math problem, okay? But that's not what we're dealing with here. There's a complex situation. So now I—it's what what to me you gave an analogy in a sense of how your brain can recall information. It it it it'll access it in a non-sequitur manner, and it will put it together based on if I if I train that way, if I look at situations that way, it'll allow me to draw on and recall more memories. It will allow me to link those together in ways that otherwise I wouldn't have, but but are really, really essential and and great for for gaining insight and arriving at good conclusions and drawing on other experiences outside of the specific one I'm in. And that exercise is is a great one. We've actually never really talked about that one before because I like how you did, you know, you get the different colored index cards and then cutting them into into different shapes. That's how file folders are in a sense. Now it still says "Call 911" on it, but but but it doesn't matter where that fits in, it's where it doesn't immediately fit, does it? That's the key.

You're exactly right.

And and can you, and how do you put this together given the set of circumstances that you have in front of you? Not not some sterile, you know, um, you know, like I said, like taking a test, a math problem, okay? Well, that's that's a different type of recall that you need to do, and there's different type of rote memory that you can have and and and do things like, how many people do you know that like can do really well on tests and then when you you try to get them to like emotionally sort of conceptualize the information and they can't? They can just recall facts. Like there's a lot of folks like that too. And you see that with the influence of the the academic community in different training things, different areas where it's like, okay, how many times you've seen me say it before? I was like, "Yeah, awesome. You're really good at naming things. Good job. You're awesome at naming everything exactly." [unintelligible] You can't [unintelligible] go do it. You you don't you don't actually understand what you're talking about. You're just naming everything you see here and going, "There's a name for that. There's a name for that." It's like, "Cool. I don't give a [unintelligible] about what the name is. I care about doing." You're a walking dictionary and a thesaurus, but that doesn't make you any more relevant as an operator. And at the end of the day, that's what we're trying to build, isn't it?

Yeah, well, and that's the idea as as how do you create a better human sensor? Well, this is this is one by creating accurate memories, by conceptualizing information in a manner that that I haven't done before in the past, by your your your index card or construction paper example. I mean, that's the thing, throw it all out on the floor and then re-redeni-grate it in a different manner for for what you have. But but if you really learn each one of those steps, then then you're good no matter no matter what order they need to go in. It doesn't really matter. It's I I I have this capability. So this is this is how we can sort of create going forward accurate memories. But one of the things you you brought up and and I want to know, I'll kind of get your opinion and how we do that is, you know, fixing memory distortions. Like when I look back on something, can I fix something that happened in the past, in a sense, so that I can use it better in the future, right? Because that's one obviously you're talking about something that's difficult to do that will create some cognitive dissonance when I say, "Well, no, that's not what happened to you, Greg." And you're like, "Yeah, I was effing there, man. I know what happened." It's like, "Well, you you you you know the emotion that you felt. You know some major muscle movements, but here's what actually occurred." So can I do that? Can we actually do that as humans?

Yes, is the answer. And a great discussion we had, Brian and I were on a project with DARPA and working Shauna Bashana with SRI for 18 months, and we met a lot of doctors, scientists, and geniuses during that 18 months and we have our entire careers. But one of the things that was funny from each of these groups, JAA, JFCOM, fight JCTD, DARPA, and stuff that we did is they all hate SMEs. And they'll tell you right upfront. And the same thing is why they hate SMEs. Because when they ask you a question, you say, "A subject matter expert," you'll always say, "Well, it depends." And then you start giving conditions. And a scientist doesn't want that. A scientist wants yes or no, right or wrong, now or later. And a subject matter expert operationalizes that information and puts it into context. Well, that is different from "A squared plus B squared equals C squared" because it doesn't end with a question mark.

And so, yes, you can do it, but it's going to take time. And let me give you an example of that. So I was watching a couple of years ago a shooting competition. It had the top female shooter. She was the fastest to put a bullet on a target of all the other females in the United States. It was not an international competition. And so she's standing on the line, she got her hands on her ear muffs up by her ears, you know, for the sound. And all of a sudden, the targets flip, they come up, and she doesn't fire a shot. And they call Alibi stop. And the woman looks back and goes, "I didn't hear the horn." And the guy said, "Well, we didn't do a horn." And she goes, "Well, I've conditioned that I put my hands up when the horn goes, the targets flip." Okay, Brian, that conditioning took precedence over in real time the targets facing her. And you're going, "Well, we got to fix that." Well, yeah, and we got to fix it in the context, not that she's going to lose because of time, but that she's going to lose on the street. That's not how life is. So so you're saying, "Well, you know, we understand it's a game." Your brain doesn't. Your brain, your brain understands something's a game on its own time. So all of a sudden, you're doing a shitty scenario, you didn't plan well, the actors aren't doing well, and all of a sudden the brain goes, "I'm going to call this [unintelligible] because it's notional and it doesn't matter to me." Your brain walks out and leaves you in the room watching the shitty scenario. So you as a human have to make sure that the information that goes in is good.

One, chunk information, it has to be digestible chunks. Two, it's got to be relevant to an adult learner. Kids are different. We don't have the time to talk about all the differences between adults and kids, but adults have to know that the information that you're putting in there is is relevant to an operation they'll actually encounter.

And there there's obviously there's there's differences. You know, kids learning versus adult learning when you're teaching them, but but at the same time, learning is still learning, right? Meaning, meaning, you what people get go too far into sometimes it's like, "Well, you have to use this adult learning model. You have to gauge them this way." And I'm like, "No, you [unintelligible] don't sometimes." Like sometimes I can throw the Legos on the table and start getting everyone excited and go, "You do this and you do that." Now it's it's up to me as the person teaching it to to tie this game to the concepts we're going over. But that's the same thing as a kid. So so we learn, we don't necessarily learn that differently, we're just taught differently. And I think that's our biggest fight with some people who are like to say, "Well, no, this is how it has to be, and it has to be like this." It's like, "Well, no it doesn't. I can leave some things out and and get them to go, 'Wait a minute, why did what's that over there?'" And I go, "We'll get to that." It's like, "You know what I mean? Like, how come we don't have that?" "I don't know, you you tell me. I can't give you every answer. I can give you prompts." But but it's no different than kids about why do we use the different cell colors and and loud stuff and and videos and then music? It's like that's how your brain learns. Like you have you have to take that. But but but and that's that's no different than it's how kids learn too. That's look at every, you know, kids' little programming they have on YouTube and TV with all the different colors and happy voices and and we bring in the, you know, the stuffed animals and we do the and it's like why? Because you get exactly. So so I I I think that that's another thing. So but but I want kind of kind of getting off how how we learn, it's about, you know, when I did did ask about fixing fixing those those memory distortions, right? Is is let's try to focus on that.

So, look, if this is my file folder in real time, it has all the elements of a file folder. The problem is it doesn't have a tab, and the tab has to be as big as a dry-erase board because there's a whole bunch of subsections that are in there. So if this is shooting, then there has to be internal terminal ballistic, external ballistic, wind velocity, Coriolis effect. All of those things have to be subtopics, and this file folder gets a lot bigger, even though inside, the information we're trying to convey is the size of a gosh-darn postage stamp. The other thing is that this has rigid edges. I'm holding up a file folder and tapping all the edges on it. Okay, your brain's memory doesn't have rigid edges. As a matter of fact, the entire reason we have myelination is so that you can use those axons and dendrites over and over and over again, and they don't lose their power, and they can connect in different manners. And again, the Wonkavator, in forward and backwards and upwards and downwards and sidewards, and all the different ways that connections can be made. And true cognition is being able to see those connections and reinforce some and delete other ones. Now, again, your brain has editing rights, so it's going to do that for you. But the reason that you and I sometimes are argue about what we, let's call it, sloppy training, we have as an advisor a person that builds education and training for a living. That's what they do, and they know all the elements that have to happen there. But, you know what, Uglu and Muktar, when the journeyman was trying to teach that basic cave guy how to sharpen that stone, he didn't know all that information, and he still was able to convey the essential elements of that skill so the tribe would survive.

Yeah, it was all implicit. It was implicitly in what you're doing, and then the the design came later to to explain all of these different elements and different parts. The person in the tribe who was better was a natural leader, was natural. It didn't go by union, "This guy's been around longer, so we're going to give it to him." And we've all got stories about seeing that fail. Like every trainer goes through this levels of training until they finally get to the point of realization where, hey, the physical act itself is the easy part. It's what's between your ears that's the hard part.

Yeah, no, and and and that that's, you know, you're talking about knowledge and and skill transfer and, you know, developing, you know, some sort of expertise or or journeyman level kind of. But but, you know, how how can I can can I fix memory distortions? Like, when I look back on something, can I fix something that happened in the past, in a sense, so that I can use it better in the future? Right? Because that's one obviously you're talking about something that's difficult to do that will create some cognitive dissonance when I say, "Well, no, that's not what happened to you, Greg." And you're like, "Yeah, I was effing there, man. I know what happened." It's like, "Well, you you you you know the emotion that you felt. You know some major muscle movements, but here's what actually occurred." So can I do that? Can we actually do that as humans?

Yeah, yes, is the answer. And a great discussion we had, Brian and I were on a project with DARPA and working Shauna Bashana with SRI for 18 months, and we met a lot of doctors, scientists, and geniuses during that 18 months and we have our entire careers. But one of the things that was funny from each of these groups, JAA, JFCOM, fight JCTD, DARPA, and stuff that we did is they all hate SMEs. And they'll tell you right upfront. And the same thing is why they hate SMEs. Because when they ask you a question, you say, "A subject matter expert," you'll always say, "Well, it depends." And then you start giving conditions. And a scientist doesn't want that. A scientist wants yes or no, right or wrong, now or later. And a subject matter expert operationalizes that information and puts it into context. Well, that is different from "A squared plus B squared equals C squared" because it doesn't end with a question mark.

And so, yes, you can do it, but it's going to take time. And let me give you an example of that. So I was watching a couple of years ago a shooting competition. It had the top female shooter. She was the fastest to put a bullet on a target of all the other females in the United States. It was not an international competition. And so she's standing on the line, she got her hands on her ear muffs up by her ears, you know, for the sound. And all of a sudden, the targets flip, they come up, and she doesn't fire a shot. And they call Alibi stop. And the woman looks back and goes, "I didn't hear the horn." And the guy said, "Well, we didn't do a horn." And she goes, "Well, I've conditioned that I put my hands up when the horn goes, the targets flip." Okay, Brian, that conditioning took precedence over in real time the targets facing her. And you're going, "Well, we got to fix that." Well, yeah, and we got to fix it in the context, not that she's going to lose because of time, but that she's going to lose on the street. That's not how life is. So so you're saying, "Well, you know, we understand it's a game." Your brain doesn't. Your brain, your brain understands something's a game on its own time. So all of a sudden, you're doing a shitty scenario, you didn't plan well, the actors aren't doing well, and all of a sudden the brain goes, "I'm going to call this [unintelligible] because it's notional and it doesn't matter to me." Your brain walks out and leaves you in the room watching the shitty scenario. So you as a human have to make sure that the information that goes in is good.

One, chunk information, it has to be digestible chunks. Two, it's got to be relevant to an adult learner. Kids are different. We don't have the time to talk about all the differences between adults and kids, but adults have to know that the information that you're putting in there is is relevant to an operation they'll actually encounter.

And there there's obviously there's there's differences. You know, kids learning versus adult learning when you're teaching them, but but at the same time, learning is still learning, right? Meaning, meaning, you what people get go too far into sometimes it's like, "Well, you have to use this adult learning model. You have to gauge them this way." And I'm like, "No, you [unintelligible] don't sometimes." Like sometimes I can throw the Legos on the table and start getting everyone excited and go, "You do this and you do that." Now it's it's up to me as the person teaching it to to tie this game to the concepts we're going over. But that's the same thing as a kid. So so we learn, we don't necessarily learn that differently, we're just taught differently. And I think that's our biggest fight with some people who are like to say, "Well, no, this is how it has to be, and it has to be like this." It's like, "Well, no it doesn't. I can leave some things out and and get them to go, 'Wait a minute, why did what's that over there?'" And I go, "We'll get to that." It's like, "You know what I mean? Like, how come we don't have that?" "I don't know, you you tell me. I can't give you every answer. I can give you prompts." But but it's no different than kids about why do we use the different cell colors and and loud stuff and and videos and then music? It's like that's how your brain learns. Like you have you have to take that. But but but and that's that's no different than it's how kids learn too. That's look at every, you know, kids' little programming they have on YouTube and TV with all the different colors and happy voices and and we bring in the, you know, the stuffed animals and we do the and it's like why? Because you get exactly. So so I I I think that that's another thing. So but but I want kind of kind of getting off how how we learn, it's about, you know, when I did did ask about fixing fixing those those memory distortions, right? Is is let's try to focus on that.

So, look, if this is my file folder in real time, it has all the elements of a file folder. The problem is it doesn't have a tab, and the tab has to be as big as a dry-erase board because there's a whole bunch of subsections that are in there. So if this is shooting, then there has to be internal terminal ballistic, external ballistic, wind velocity, Coriolis effect. All of those things have to be subtopics, and this file folder gets a lot bigger, even though inside, the information we're trying to convey is the size of a gosh-darn postage stamp. The other thing is that this has rigid edges. I'm holding up a file folder and tapping all the edges on it. Okay, your brain's memory doesn't have rigid edges. As a matter of fact, the entire reason we have myelination is so that you can use those axons and dendrites over and over and over again, and they don't lose their power, and they can connect in different manners. And again, the Wonkavator, in forward and backwards and upwards and downwards and sidewards, and all the different ways that connections can be made. And true cognition is being able to see those connections and reinforce some and delete other ones. Now, again, your brain has editing rights, so it's going to do that for you. But the reason that you and I sometimes are argue about what we, let's call it, sloppy training, we have as an advisor a person that builds education and training for a living. That's what they do, and they know all the elements that have to happen there. But, you know what, Uglu and Muktar, when the journeyman was trying to teach that basic cave guy how to sharpen that stone, he didn't know all that information, and he still was able to convey the essential elements of that skill so the tribe would survive.

Yeah, it was all implicit. It was implicitly in what you're doing, and then the the design came later to to explain all of these different elements and different parts. The person in the tribe who was better was a natural leader, was natural. It didn't go by union, "This guy's been around longer, so we're going to give it to him." And we've all got stories about seeing that fail. Like every trainer goes through this levels of training until they finally get to the point of realization where, hey, the physical act itself is the easy part. It's what's between your ears that's the hard part.

Yeah, no, and and and that that's, you know, you're talking about knowledge and and skill transfer and, you know, developing, you know, some sort of expertise or or journeyman level kind of. But but, you know, how how can I can can I fix memory distortions? Like, when I look back on something, can I fix something that happened in the past, in a sense, so that I can use it better in the future? Right? Because that's one obviously you're talking about something that's difficult to do that will create some cognitive dissonance when I say, "Well, no, that's not what happened to you, Greg." And you're like, "Yeah, I was effing there, man. I know what happened." It's like, "Well, you you you you know the emotion that you felt. You know some major muscle movements, but here's what actually occurred." So can I do that? Can we actually do that as humans?

Yes, is the answer. And a great discussion we had, Brian and I were on a project with DARPA and working Shauna Bashana with SRI for 18 months, and we met a lot of doctors, scientists, and geniuses during that 18 months and we have our entire careers. But one of the things that was funny from each of these groups, JAA, JFCOM, fight JCTD, DARPA, and stuff that we did is they all hate SMEs. And they'll tell you right upfront. And the same thing is why they hate SMEs. Because when they ask you a question, you say, "A subject matter expert," you'll always say, "Well, it depends." And then you start giving conditions. And a scientist doesn't want that. A scientist wants yes or no, right or wrong, now or later. And a subject matter expert operationalizes that information and puts it into context. Well, that is different from "A squared plus B squared equals C squared" because it doesn't end with a question mark.

And so, yes, you can do it, but it's going to take time. And let me give you an example of that. So I was watching a couple of years ago a shooting competition. It had the top female shooter. She was the fastest to put a bullet on a target of all the other females in the United States. It was not an international competition. And so she's standing on the line, she got her hands on her ear muffs up by her ears, you know, for the sound. And all of a sudden, the targets flip, they come up, and she doesn't fire a shot. And they call Alibi stop. And the woman looks back and goes, "I didn't hear the horn." And the guy said, "Well, we didn't do a horn." And she goes, "Well, I've conditioned that I put my hands up when the horn goes, the targets flip." Okay, Brian, that conditioning took precedence over in real time the targets facing her. And you're going, "Well, we got to fix that." Well, yeah, and we got to fix it in the context, not that she's going to lose because of time, but that she's going to lose on the street. That's not how life is. So so you're saying, "Well, you know, we understand it's a game." Your brain doesn't. Your brain, your brain understands something's a game on its own time. So all of a sudden, you're doing a shitty scenario, you didn't plan well, the actors aren't doing well, and all of a sudden the brain goes, "I'm going to call this [unintelligible] because it's notional and it doesn't matter to me." Your brain walks out and leaves you in the room watching the shitty scenario. So you as a human have to make sure that the information that goes in is good.

One, chunk information, it has to be digestible chunks. Two, it's got to be relevant to an adult learner. Kids are different. We don't have the time to talk about all the differences between adults and kids, but adults have to know that the information that you're putting in there is is relevant to an operation they'll actually encounter.

And there there's obviously there's there's differences. You know, kids learning versus adult learning when you're teaching them, but but at the same time, learning is still learning, right? Meaning, meaning, you what people get go too far into sometimes it's like, "Well, you have to use this adult learning model. You have to gauge them this way." And I'm like, "No, you [unintelligible] don't sometimes." Like sometimes I can throw the Legos on the table and start getting everyone excited and go, "You do this and you do that." Now it's it's up to me as the person teaching it to to tie this game to the concepts we're going over. But that's the same thing as a kid. So so we learn, we don't necessarily learn that differently, we're just taught differently. And I think that's our biggest fight with some people who are like to say, "Well, no, this is how it has to be, and it has to be like this." It's like, "Well, no it doesn't. I can leave some things out and and get them to go, 'Wait a minute, why did what's that over there?'" And I go, "We'll get to that." It's like, "You know what I mean? Like, how come we don't have that?" "I don't know, you you tell me. I can't give you every answer. I can give you prompts." But but it's no different than kids about why do we use the different cell colors and and loud stuff and and videos and then music? It's like that's how your brain learns. Like you have you have to take that. But but but and that's that's no different than it's how kids learn too. That's look at every, you know, kids' little programming they have on YouTube and TV with all the different colors and happy voices and and we bring in the, you know, the stuffed animals and we do the and it's like why? Because you get exactly. So so I I I think that that's another thing. So but but I want kind of kind of getting off how how we learn, it's about, you know, when I did did ask about fixing fixing those those memory distortions, right? Is is let's try to focus on that.

So, look, if this is my file folder in real time, it has all the elements of a file folder. The problem is it doesn't have a tab, and the tab has to be as big as a dry-erase board because there's a whole bunch of subsections that are in there. So if this is shooting, then there has to be internal terminal ballistic, external ballistic, wind velocity, Coriolis effect. All of those things have to be subtopics, and this file folder gets a lot bigger, even though inside, the information we're trying to convey is the size of a gosh-darn postage stamp. The other thing is that this has rigid edges. I'm holding up a file folder and tapping all the edges on it. Okay, your brain's memory doesn't have rigid edges. As a matter of fact, the entire reason we have myelination is so that you can use those axons and dendrites over and over and over again, and they don't lose their power, and they can connect in different manners. And again, the Wonkavator, in forward and backwards and upwards and downwards and sidewards, and all the different ways that connections can be made. And true cognition is being able to see those connections and reinforce some and delete other ones. Now, again, your brain has editing rights, so it's going to do that for you. But the reason that you and I sometimes are argue about what we, let's call it, sloppy training, we have as an advisor a person that builds education and training for a living. That's what they do, and they know all the elements that have to happen there. But, you know what, Uglu and Muktar, when the journeyman was trying to teach that basic cave guy how to sharpen that stone, he didn't know all that information, and he still was able to convey the essential elements of that skill so the tribe would survive.

Yeah, it was all implicit. It was implicitly in what you're doing, and then the the design came later to to explain all of these different elements and different parts. The person in the tribe who was better was a natural leader, was natural. It didn't go by union, "This guy's been around longer, so we're going to give it to him." And we've all got stories about seeing that fail. Like every trainer goes through this levels of training until they finally get to the point of realization where, hey, the physical act itself is the easy part. It's what's between your ears that's the hard part.

Yeah, no, and and and that that's, you know, you're talking about knowledge and and skill transfer and, you know, developing, you know, some sort of expertise or or journeyman level kind of. But but, you know, how how can I can can I fix memory distortions? Like, when I look back on something, can I fix something that happened in the past, in a sense, so that I can use it better in the future? Right? Because that's one obviously you're talking about something that's difficult to do that will create some cognitive dissonance when I say, "Well, no, that's not what happened to you, Greg." And you're like, "Yeah, I was effing there, man. I know what happened." It's like, "Well, you you you you know the emotion that you felt. You know some major muscle movements, but here's what actually occurred." So can I do that? Can we actually do that as humans?

Yes, is the answer. And a great discussion we had, Brian and I were on a project with DARPA and working Shauna Bashana with SRI for 18 months, and we met a lot of doctors, scientists, and geniuses during that 18 months and we have our entire careers. But one of the things that was funny from each of these groups, JAA, JFCOM, fight JCTD, DARPA, and stuff that we did is they all hate SMEs. And they'll tell you right upfront. And the same thing is why they hate SMEs. Because when they ask you a question, you say, "A subject matter expert," you'll always say, "Well, it depends." And then you start giving conditions. And a scientist doesn't want that. A scientist wants yes or no, right or wrong, now or later. And a subject matter expert operationalizes that information and puts it into context. Well, that is different from "A squared plus B squared equals C squared" because it doesn't end with a question mark.

And so, yes, you can do it, but it's going to take time. And let me give you an example of that. So I was watching a couple of years ago a shooting competition. It had the top female shooter. She was the fastest to put a bullet on a target of all the other females in the United States. It was not an international competition. And so she's standing on the line, she got her hands on her ear muffs up by her ears, you know, for the sound. And all of a sudden, the targets flip, they come up, and she doesn't fire a shot. And they call Alibi stop. And the woman looks back and goes, "I didn't hear the horn." And the guy said, "Well, we didn't do a horn." And she goes, "Well, I've conditioned that I put my hands up when the horn goes, the targets flip." Okay, Brian, that conditioning took precedence over in real time the targets facing her. And you're going, "Well, we got to fix that." Well, yeah, and we got to fix it in the context, not that she's going to lose because of time, but that she's going to lose on the street. That's not how life is. So so you're saying, "Well, you know, we understand it's a game." Your brain doesn't. Your brain, your brain understands something's a game on its own time. So all of a sudden, you're doing a shitty scenario, you didn't plan well, the actors aren't doing well, and all of a sudden the brain goes, "I'm going to call this [unintelligible] because it's notional and it doesn't matter to me." Your brain walks out and leaves you in the room watching the shitty scenario. So you as a human have to make sure that the information that goes in is good.

One, chunk information, it has to be digestible chunks. Two, it's got to be relevant to an adult learner. Kids are different. We don't have the time to talk about all the differences between adults and kids, but adults have to know that the information that you're putting in there is is relevant to an operation they'll actually encounter.

Yeah, no, and and and that that's, you know, you're talking about knowledge and and skill transfer and, you know, developing, you know, some sort of expertise or or journeyman level kind of. But but, you know, how how can I can can I fix memory distortions? Like, when I look back on something, can I fix something that happened in the past, in a sense, so that I can use it better in the future? Right? Because that's one obviously you're talking about something that's difficult to do that will create some cognitive dissonance when I say, "Well, no, that's not what happened to you, Greg." And you're like, "Yeah, I was effing there, man. I know what happened." It's like, "Well, you you you you know the emotion that you felt. You know some major muscle movements, but here's what actually occurred." So can I do that? Can we actually do that as humans?

Yes, is the answer. And a great discussion we had, Brian and I were on a project with DARPA and working Shauna Bashana with SRI for 18 months, and we met a lot of doctors, scientists, and geniuses during that 18 months and we have our entire careers. But one of the things that was funny from each of these groups, JAA, JFCOM, fight JCTD, DARPA, and stuff that we did is they all hate SMEs. And they'll tell you right upfront. And the same thing is why they hate SMEs. Because when they ask you a question, you say, "A subject matter expert," you'll always say, "Well, it depends." And then you start giving conditions. And a scientist doesn't want that. A scientist wants yes or no, right or wrong, now or later. And a subject matter expert operationalizes that information and puts it into context. Well, that is different from "A squared plus B squared equals C squared" because it doesn't end with a question mark.

And so, yes, you can do it, but it's going to take time. And let me give you an example of that. So I was watching a couple of years ago a shooting competition. It had the top female shooter. She was the fastest to put a bullet on a target of all the other females in the United States. It was not an international competition. And so she's standing on the line, she got her hands on her ear muffs up by her ears, you know, for the sound. And all of a sudden, the targets flip, they come up, and she doesn't fire a shot. And they call Alibi stop. And the woman looks back and goes, "I didn't hear the horn." And the guy said, "Well, we didn't do a horn." And she goes, "Well, I've conditioned that I put my hands up when the horn goes, the targets flip." Okay, Brian, that conditioning took precedence over in real time the targets facing her. And you're going, "Well, we got to fix that." Well, yeah, and we got to fix it in the context, not that she's going to lose because of time, but that she's going to lose on the street. That's not how life is. So so you're saying, "Well, you know, we understand it's a game." Your brain doesn't. Your brain, your brain understands something's a game on its own time. So all of a sudden, you're doing a shitty scenario, you didn't plan well, the actors aren't doing well, and all of a sudden the brain goes, "I'm going to call this [unintelligible] because it's notional and it doesn't matter to me." Your brain walks out and leaves you in the room watching the shitty scenario. So you as a human have to make sure that the information that goes in is good.

One, chunk information, it has to be digestible chunks. Two, it's got to be relevant to an adult learner. Kids are different. We don't have the time to talk about all the differences between adults and kids, but adults have to know that the information that you're putting in there is is relevant to an operation they'll actually encounter.

Yeah, no, and and and that that's, you know, you're talking about knowledge and and skill transfer and, you know, developing, you know, some sort of expertise or or journeyman level kind of. But but, you know, how how can I can can I fix memory distortions? Like, when I look back on something, can I fix something that happened in the past, in a sense, so that I can use it better in the future? Right? Because that's one obviously you're talking about something that's difficult to do that will create some cognitive dissonance when I say, "Well, no, that's not what happened to you, Greg." And you're like, "Yeah, I was effing there, man. I know what happened." It's like, "Well, you you you you know the emotion that you felt. You know some major muscle movements, but here's what actually occurred." So can I do that? Can we actually do that as humans?

Yes, is the answer. And a great discussion we had, Brian and I were on a project with DARPA and working Shauna Bashana with SRI for 18 months, and we met a lot of doctors, scientists, and geniuses during that 18 months and we have our entire careers. But one of the things that was funny from each of these groups, JAA, JFCOM, fight JCTD, DARPA, and stuff that we did is they all hate SMEs. And they'll tell you right upfront. And the same thing is why they hate SMEs. Because when they ask you a question, you say, "A subject matter expert," you'll always say, "Well, it depends." And then you start giving conditions. And a scientist doesn't want that. A scientist wants yes or no, right or wrong, now or later. And a subject matter expert operationalizes that information and puts it into context. Well, that is different from "A squared plus B squared equals C squared" because it doesn't end with a question mark.

And so, yes, you can do it, but it's going to take time. And let me give you an example of that. So I was watching a couple of years ago a shooting competition. It had the top female shooter. She was the fastest to put a bullet on a target of all the other females in the United States. It was not an international competition. And so she's standing on the line, she got her hands on her ear muffs up by her ears, you know, for the sound. And all of a sudden, the targets flip, they come up, and she doesn't fire a shot. And they call Alibi stop. And the woman looks back and goes, "I didn't hear the horn." And the guy said, "Well, we didn't do a horn." And she goes, "Well, I've conditioned that I put my hands up when the horn goes, the targets flip." Okay, Brian, that conditioning took precedence over in real time the targets facing her. And you're going, "Well, we got to fix that." Well, yeah, and we got to fix it in the context, not that she's going to lose because of time, but that she's going to lose on the street. That's not how life is. So so you're saying, "Well, you know, we understand it's a game." Your brain doesn't. Your brain, your brain understands something's a game on its own time. So all of a sudden, you're doing a shitty scenario, you didn't plan well, the actors aren't doing well, and all of a sudden the brain goes, "I'm going to call this [unintelligible] because it's notional and it doesn't matter to me." Your brain walks out and leaves you in the room watching the shitty scenario. So you as a human have to make sure that the information that goes in is good.

One, chunk information, it has to be digestible chunks. Two, it's got to be relevant to an adult learner. Kids are different. We don't have the time to talk about all the differences between adults and kids, but adults have to know that the information that you're putting in there is is relevant to an operation they'll actually encounter.

No, and those are all those are all great examples. And those are ways we do them sort of naturally too. Like you, you know, you brought up the the wake at a funeral. I mean, that's our way psychologically to, um, you know, heal and to move on and to remember that person because we want to be remembered too when we die and live on. So it's it's our way of of it's our coping mechanism. Every society, every culture has throughout history, even even even probably predating Homo sapiens, even, there's finding evidence of have had some sort of ritual where that you do that. And it's for it's to serve those purposes. It's for the purpose of memory, which is really paying it forward like you talked about earlier, and going on and saying, "Well, this is was their contribution, and this is why you do things in your life, because you're contributing to the tribe, and we're going to remember you and your contributions later." And then and then we can fix those things. Like you said, "Well, we remember when he did this, and that was kind of dumb." Like, "Yeah, but, you know, he he was trying to do something nice for the kids that year, and it didn't work out. But but his intent was really, really good." You know, and and those come out in those stories, and sometimes sometimes they get corrupted in a sense there. And we we put a nice bow on it for the purposes of making it, you know, after the fact. We do that sometimes where people get idolized, and then then has someone else to go back and go, "Wait a minute, like what about all this other [unintelligible] that they did?" So so I like that example because it's a great way of looking at memories and and how we how we how they they they're altered in a sense and and and and, you know, to for appreciate correcting it's not fixing, but it's it's influencing and modifying and this, you know, exactly. Amending. There's the best way, but fixing isn't, it's not it's not slap the table and, "Oh, good, that one's good." It's like, "Well, you know,"

So so let a wild card at right now. If you're still listening, you're you're a fan, and we love you, because nobody's going to put up with this much abuse in their brain for this long without being a fan. I want everybody listening to understand how the "so what" here, the the the bottom line upfront of memories: I can use a memory for predictive analysis. Why? Because my emotions are similar to all other emotions, and if they're not, they're anomalous, and I have to investigate it. So what am I saying? The talk that we have at that wake, grief, fear, understanding emotions, is going to help us figure out why Jim put his uniform on, went to the sallyport with his own car, parked it, and shot himself at work. Because Jim was looking for one more time that feeling of belonging to that tribe at that level, and he was familiar with that place, he knew that. And he knew that there would be reverence when the people found him, and they took him out of that car, and they were going to go, "Hey, this is Jim." And that's why Mary did the same thing and went back and, you know, shot up her elementary school. Why? Because she went there, and that was a function of her memories where she remembered just one more time wanted to be pushed on a slide by that cute boy that liked her, or whatever. Okay, you construct all those different things, and it's not a Hollywood movie, that's how your brain works. So you're moving forward in your life or stagnating—neutral gets you nowhere—based on those memories, not just the memory and emotion link, based on those memories and your ability to recall the information correctly and synopsize it and say, "I can apply that here," but I can't just apply it here. I've got to be applying it to to future encounters as well. That means I'm efficient, and the more efficient of us in the tribe are the ones that are the the have longevity. And I don't mean DNA-based physical longevity, I mean our memories go further in that tribe. The stuff you leave behind is going to return to dust in a hundred years, nobody's going to remember, but if you leave behind a book or a song or an impression on a group of people, Brian, that that you influence to do something, those are going to outlast all of us. That's the key. So so so, you know, why are we trying to fix fix those broken memories? Because it's the right thing to do to make sure that we have a tabula rasa, a clean slate to go into each new file folder.

Yeah, no, I think that's a good place to to to end on, on on the "so what," on the "why," or or the the not just the "so what" because we got into that, but but the "why" is important. You know, why does that matter? How can it matter even more? I I agree, I agree with you, and and it's it's just part of that that Human Condition. And then yeah, like like you just said, I mean, that's how you you you want to live forever. Well, if you influence people and you leave your mark on them, you will. You you and that can be good and that can be bad, but you you absolutely will. And that's how that's how, um, it kind of works. But no, this is a this a a good discussion on memory. I enjoyed it. So hopefully, hopefully [you] thought so. I'm sorry, I'm sorry [to make] fun of you and Shelly as is not human.

No, that's that's on you.

Um, it, thank you for reminding me that because the rest of the Lessons Learned is on there. There's some great ones in there too. "Play it Again, Sam" from Casablanca—that's a great one. And and or the the the "Date that will live in infamy"—that's always a great one. But there's other examples that you have in the Lessons Learned that people kind of look at and and jump into and see how those things change over time, but it has a lot to do with memory and recall. So that's that's all I have. I I appreciate everyone for for tuning in and listening. We remind you there's always more on the Patreon site, and please keep reaching out with any other questions or topics that you want us to cover, and don't forget that training changes behavior.