L.O.G. 217 Access

All right, Greg, we will go ahead and get started this morning. Today, we're talking about something that we've discussed a lot in different episodes, but never really specifically. But today, we're talking about access—well, two things: access and boundaries. And why we're talking about this is from some news articles that we've seen where people kind of get things wrong when it comes to organization and why people choose certain targets and how they predate on people.

A lot of times, these analysis can get into different types of psychological reasons behind stuff, or different ideological reasons and why we do stuff. We try to break it down simply into what we call access. Meaning all criminals, terrorists, and insurgents, if they're going to commit a crime, they have to have access to the person, the victim, or the facility, the building, whatever it is, right? They have true access. And if they don't have access, they will use different methods to create access.

So, if I look at it from that criminal perspective, it's like, "Okay, I've got to have access." Then, if I look at it from the other side of the coin, that's kind of when the boundaries come in, right? I have to think about it from a boundary perspective. So, we're going to be—that's basically kind of big picture what we're talking about. Like I said, we've discussed this on other podcasts, and obviously, when we're class training, we talk about sophistication and organization levels of a criminal, terrorist, or insurgent and how to understand that. And then, when I add that in with access, that's how I can see things starting to come together. But we'll sort of keep it within this whole access and boundaries thing today. Because when we get these things wrong and how we look at different crimes, it really—I know people are, for the most part, they're trying to understand it, right? They're going, "Why would this—why would a high school teacher predate on a child? I would never, ever do that. That's insane to me." So there's fear, and there's, "I don't understand it, why would you do that?"

And then someone comes in and tries to give some kind of weird explanation, and then they go, "Okay, well then the girls' basketball coach at every high school in the United States is more likely to be a pedophile." It's like, "Well, no, no, that's the wrong way to look at science. That's not how that works." What it is, is it's about access and creating access. And if that's what you're going to do, there's only so many places you can do it. So, this also helps the way we talk about it, helps with understanding the crime, understanding the perpetrator so that I can actually have some sort of clear takeaways on how to prevent these things, right? If I look at it using this terminology, I'm less likely to get it wrong. And it doesn't limit me to one type of crime, right? I don't just go, "Okay, this is for catching human traffickers," or "This is for catching bank robbers." No, it's just understanding human behavior at a general level, right? And so then I can apply it to whatever domain that I'm in, in a sense.

So that's kind of the big picture I want to talk about, but I want to throw it to you to kind of kick things off.

Holy crap, do I have so much written down just in that first couple of moments of intro. First of all, boundaries and access are intrinsically related. So, dumb it down and use science. Don't make a bigger problem bigger; make that bigger problem smaller by stepping back and seeing it in its entirety. What do I mean by that? If we talk about access and we talk about boundaries as being a threshold, a literal doorway between two areas, why would we have to set that up? Because we're humans, and we have to set boundaries for our belongings and for our house, and for our work relationships, and for our body, and for our emotions, and for all of our relationships. If not, why? Then we would be like the monkey kingdom where the head monkey just bends the other monkey over all day long, throwing feces at his job. It would be chaos, Brian. We have to have those in order, and those change depending on the relationship, right? And the length of a relationship, and whether it's familial, and whether it's a first person that we met that day, right? Like if I walked out in the parking lot and I saw you with your foot on my bumper in my car, I would have a different reaction to if I walked out and found a complete stranger, right? So that's a scope that we have to look through. And while we're looking through that scope, we're going to hold other lenses to make it more clearer, less clearer. Here we're back at the flow raptor.

So, setting boundaries is different when we're talking about our belongings in our house than setting healthy boundaries when we're talking about our bodies and our relationships, right? So, they're in the same vein. They're in the same file folder, Brian. They're in the same ice cube tray, right? But now, guess what? They're a little bit different, aren't they? And without boundaries, if I allow everyone to have access to me all the time, it's hard for me to remain an individual. It's hard for me to remain independent. It's hard for me to be self-aware. And now, anybody that's met Brian and I, or knows us for any length of time, know that to get to me, you've got to get through Brian. But that has nothing to do with I'm standoffish. That has everything to do with Brian is the organization. Brian is highly organized. I'm low organization, low sophistication. So, to get access to me, Brian is my filter, and I welcome that because that fixes a lot of the things that could go wrong in our relationship and our business.

Yeah, it makes my life easier. Of course, it does.

Of course. You don't come to you and dump a bunch of files on your desk and go, "By the way, there's magic in there somewhere. Go." Right. But I think it's how we have to teach people how to treat us, and a way that people are showing and exposing their level of access and vulnerability daily. And I'll give it to you in a story. Andrew Zimmern is the worst person on the face of the planet—former, like, heroin addict, I'm paraphrasing so it's not exact, and I'm just doing it—you do your own research and come to your own decisions—but the guy, as a chef and as a person that can rate and gauge other chefs, he's a genius, okay? So, I didn't like him a lot like other chefs that I've run into over my life. You know, we had a chef, we get to the ranch, I meet a lot of these folks, right? So, he has a show that I absolutely hate where he goes and eats the eyeballs of the goat and the testicles of the ram, and all those, it's just not my thing. But he has another show, "Bizarre Foods: Delicious Destinations." That's the single best show on television. He has the history behind it, the people behind it, you know, how these things are made and what the historical perspective and why, you know, this in Poland is exactly the same thing as China. He's like us, Brian, in the food, in the food world, I guess.

Yeah.

Okay. So, if I want to be grossed out, I would access his "Bizarre Foods." If I want to be pissed off, I would access his history and say, "Hey, I don't need to know your sad history and how it propelled you to greatness now." And if I want to be turned on and have a great half an hour, I tune in to "Delicious Destinations." What does that mean? That means that there's something for everybody out there, but I have to tune into the frequency, Brian, that I'm searching for. So, if I'm a pedophile and I fantasize about young boys kneeling down and opening their mouths in front of me, and folks, this is going to get R-rated fast, okay? I have a limited number of "Delicious Destinations" to go to. I can't be a librarian and have that situation show up naturally. I can't be a baseball coach and have that show up naturally. But I can certainly be a priest and be teaching a kid that way. Now, Brian, did I just say that all priests are pedophiles? No. So, this doesn't hold water, and that's the issue is then how we look at it, we go, "Okay, well now you're a priest, so you're more likely to be a pedophile." It's like, "Well, no, no, no, no, that's not how that works." It's just one has to have a relationship to create the other. Because if I was going to look for that pedophile, I can't—I'll have an easier time finding them where they have access to their victims.

Exactly.

So, look, I want you alone, and folks, this has nothing to do with the show. I'm finally coming out of the closet and asking Brian for a relationship. No, I want you alone, Brian, and I also want you provocatively dressed, and I want you to completely relax around me. And then I'm going to apply my trade by raping and murdering you. Now, if I tell you that at the Denny's we're having a make-hamlet—okay, I don't know if that's a thing, but if it is, it's hilarious—you're probably going to say no, okay? No matter how much Rohypnol I put in your breakfast, you're probably going to say no. Now, I come up to gain access with a very highly organized, low sophisticated way. What is that way? I'm a photographer, Brian. And I'll tell you what, you've got the face, man. I could really make some money off you, and I think you'd be happy with it. So, the very first thing we do is I take a couple of pictures of you in the Denny's, then in the parking lot, and I say, "Hey, do me a favor, come by the studio a little bit later," right? I take a couple there at the studio, and I go, "Hey, maybe you should wear these boxer shorts and this t-shirt." Okay? And what we do is we start breaking down those boundaries. And I say, "Hey, I've got this place out in the desert, and we're going to have the yuccas in the background and the mountains in the sky," right? And the next thing you know, I'm strangling you out, and there is no safe word. You get what I'm trying to say? And they never see from—and you're going, "Well, wait a minute, that sounds very complicated." It's not. It's time. It's time and distance. If you manipulate the gift of time and distance, you can be a pedophile or a murderer, serial killer. How do you do that? You find out what your intended target is. How do I gain access to that intended target, and how do I lower those boundaries?

Yeah, and that's the key, isn't it? I think that's the equation.

Yeah. And it was—that's the Jared from Subway and Coach Sandusky playbook right there.

Okay. Well, how do I access victims? Well, I know, why don't we have a non-profit organization that focuses on disadvantaged youths who don't have mentors in their life?

Yeah, yeah, you see how that's parallel. Hold on, Brian, let's parallel all that. So, I want immediate access, right? So, I come up with that, "We'll measure your kid's underwear and make sure that it's appropriate for them." Okay? And people are going to go immediately skeptical, "What are you talking about?" Right? So, in other words, if I run down the hallway and grab your kid, I've got very little chance that I'm going to be able to molest that child, and I'm probably only going to be able to do it that one time, get it? So, the idea is if I want to apply my trade over time, I have to do it a little at a time. And that, we all know psychologically, is referred to as grooming.

So, grooming without access is worthless. It's a waste of time. I'm chasing my tail.

So, Brian, again, these things have to stack up. So, what are we telling the savvy parent that's out there or HR person or a police investigator? We're telling them, "Look for that access." And if I don't have access, Brian, what am I going to do?

You're going to make access.

Right, you're going to create it.

And then, you see, you talk about because you brought up grooming, that's obviously what we're talking about, and that's another term now that people are just throwing around, just like, okay, it's like, how do you know someone doesn't know what that means? It's because they're constantly saying, "Yeah," it's like the same way you know no one actually who actually read George Orwell's 1984. You know how you know if they didn't actually read the book? Because they're posting quotes on it, right? So, you're getting into with creating access and then grooming behavior. Because this will happen for anything. This will happen, you know, that person will then groom other people around them, which will help them gain access or apply their trade or do whatever.

And so, if the other side of that coin is then boundaries, Greg, then what—what is—how do I look at it? Okay, so you—we kind of just laid out what access meant. We gave some examples. But that's really no different than, you know, gaining access to a school because you want to attack that school, gaining access to a bank because you want to rob the bank, right? There's stuff that's what you have to take in order to gain access. There's only so many days and times you can do that if that's the type of crime you'd commit. So, there's—

Yeah, let me be a dick here. You are, and yeah, I am, trust me, folks, and that's a scientific term. And I poke you in the eye only to make you pay more attention. Now, not to try to besmirch your good name, but if you're a security guard, stop trying to be an executive and protection dignitary, okay? Stop trying to be, because what happens is, it's okay to be a security guard. It's okay that your job is to secure a physical location. But what happens is, we have these moments of grandiose thinking where we think that it's got to be this, and it's more complicated, and that this is about the look. If we spend all the time flipping that big tire and doing the ropes, we're going to be strong and hard to kill. But while we're there in the yard doing that, we're not paying attention to our surroundings sometimes. So, paying attention to your surroundings is the first key. And I'm not talking just basic situation awareness. I'm talking about, "How can I gain access to you without you knowing it?"

Well, in the military, I made a living off of finding snipers. Why? How does a sniper do that, Brian? A sniper does it with a bullet delivered at long range with a set of optics. So, if I was going to investigate snipers, I could do it a number of ways. I could go out and learn everything there is about terminal ballistics or calibers or optics. And you know me, Brian, I don't know crap about any of those. Okay? But you know what I do know? I know people. And I know that an ambush is a way that I can gain access to you without ever facing you. Because if I face you, Brian, not only do you know what I look like, but you might kick my ass. You might, okay? And you might win. So, I can't take that chance.

So, what's the first rule of predating your kid? I have to isolate your kid. And you're going, "Well, we're going to see that right away now," because I do it over stages. I do it a little at a time. First of all, Instagram is isolating somebody. Social media is isolating somebody's hands. It's just me and just that person. And now I isolate you with information. So, Brian, I love that movie, Galaxy Quest. I saw Galaxy Quest at two o'clock in the morning last night. You've never heard of it, but it was on an MGM free weekend, so I taped it. And the female from Aliens was on it, Sigourney Weaver. And there was a line where she was saying, "All the people ever remember is my boobs." And so you and I are laughing about that now, and I go, "Do you like boobs? Well, do you like females with boobs?" What I do is I have to break that down a little at a time, because if I come at you all at once, you're going to put your defenses up. What are those? Those are boundaries. Do you see how easy it is?

So, I can't trigger your boundary. Hey, an IED. You know, the beauty of an IED? I build that IED in my basement in silence, all alone. I choose which gets me off, where I'm going to put it, and when I'm going to put it. But if I put it in the middle of a football field on a Wednesday at seven in the morning, I'm probably not going to hurt anybody. So, what do I do, Brian? I do the research. Where is the best access point for that bomb where I can be the furthest away from it, but I still want to know the results of it? And you're saying, "What does an IED have to do with a bank robber or a pedophile?" It has everything to do with it.

Yeah.

And if you're an investigator or you're a parent, you should be writing this stuff down because these are gems. And it's not gems because Brian and I are super intelligent. It's gems because in our experiences and in our training, what we found out in all of the research is that everybody follows that pattern: low-level sophistication, high level of organization, and access. And access means that I've got to make you lower your boundaries, or I've got to find a way in that you haven't anticipated that alone. Okay?

Workplace violence and school shooters. Okay, where are they going to come in, Brian? They're going to come in the door. How many times have we seen that? Even though the reinforcing doors, they're, you know, like the new standard, I think is six minutes, and don't hold me to that. It's a thing that I read that the door has to withstand a complete assault and battery against that door for six minutes to be considered safe. Okay? You do that to the door, I'm coming in the window. And you're going, "Okay, but I've done the doors and the windows and I put up a security gate." All I've got to do is steal a car and back that son of a gun through the cinder block wall that you built. So, what did we learn with the MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle), Brian? We can keep making that MRAP bigger. What did our opponents do? They built a bigger bomb to create access. Access is the key to all of this, Brian.

No, and then, and that's why we're hitting it so hard with these different examples, too, because, you know, if I look at it from that standpoint, is that, "Okay, who am I giving, who am I allowing access to here? Who is it? What do I even know about them? Do I want my kids around those people? Should I be around this person? Who am I," you know, and that comes with everything, not just you physically, the information you give, you know? There's certain things, there's a lot of things I don't talk about with people just because I go, "I don't really want that person to know that piece of information of your life."

And not in all of your life, right?

No, and that's the thing, is it's dependent upon the relationship and what that means to you. But yes, but when I start to use things like access and boundaries and use those terms, it helps clarify it too because then it's not really, it's—you know, it's a scientific way of looking at it, so I'm being as objective as possible. I'm not looking at this person and going, "Oh, but I've known them and well, they're the pastor at the local church." And yes, the, you know, people, we create that through fundamental attribution errors. We create these personas of people that are just, it, they make no sense. It's like, "Well, that person never did," "Well, they were, you know, they were in the military and then they were a police officer and then they're the pa—" It's like, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Like, you're putting that thinking that person's any different exactly than the bum underneath the freeway overpass.

And it's like, I, you know, I want to hope that I would be able to pick out the teacher that wants to rape my kid. And I want to be—yeah, if I can do that, sure. But the problem is that that person is going to be the well-camouflaged, nicest liar that you've ever met. Why? Because the price? Why my trade for a long time and not getting railed in a prison cell every 14 minutes? Okay? I have to be—so, so what does that mean? That means that we have to take a look at, for example, I want to talk about two things very briefly. One is a public call office (PCO). I made a living on public call offices because in Mosul, Connecticut, Iraq, people had never heard of them. And the terrorists were still getting information out, Brian, and they were sending videos. And everybody was going, "How are they doing that?" Well, a PCO is a public call office. They were going to the local place in Iraq where you would pay somebody for an internet access and sending them. So, if you wanted to find a terrorist or criminal, I could take you right to them. But we didn't know that. We didn't know that they needed access to something else. So, guess what? Everybody was operating at the beginning of the funnel. All I did is focus them at the tiny end.

So, if that's true, Brian, that can be said for anything, for solving a problem using a quadratic equation or using math or anything else. And that's what we do is we do science. So, I'll give you one more. I read an article, and the article said, "Hey, listen, every time you go to the mall, when you're walking through the parking lot, you knock on that van because that van might contain a kid that's being sex trafficked." Stop for just a second now and before you show how ridiculous that remark is, but listen to me, folks, you're falling for other crap too, because I read a thing that said there's a hundred-dollar bill on a windshield. And what it does is it makes the female stop for a minute, Brian, to get that hundred-dollar bill, and while she's fumbling to put it in her wallet, she's going to be kidnapped. Do me a favor, if you're a chief of police, look in your agency for the last time that was a tactic, okay? The people that are doing this, Brian, they're much more highly organized here, and they're using the lowest sophisticated methods that can't be tracked.

It's the—that's the drugged or razor blades in the Halloween candy, or that urban legend. Why does it come up all the time?

Because we're scared, and they know they'll appeal to us.

Yeah, and that's the thing, as people are selling tickets to whatever they're selling tickets to, whether that's just clicks or likes or thumbs up, you have to be able to read that early on, or guess what, you're going to click. The biggest problem with all that junk is that it then makes it, you know, so I can actually understand it even less because now I'm looking for a—I'm looking for the—oh, God, I'm like up late last night with the baby. I'm looking for the boogeyman, you know what I mean? It's at that point, you're just making it up. And it's like, I don't—now I'm looking for something that—

You're making stuff up because of the chemical interactions of fear. So, the same thing with anger, think about this. You're mildly angry. We're back at the Denny's. I don't know, I'm hungry and we've got our egg hamlet, and we're sitting down, and all of a sudden, somebody bumped my chair when they walked by. And then I saw the person walk by and they looked back. Now, they meant nothing by it, and they looked back because they didn't know that they bumped the chair. And now I'm going, "Did he just throw me a sign? Is that person looking?" Because anger came up because I was surprised by the chair. Brian, what's happening is now these chemicals are racing through my system. So, what happens next is all important. If I look at that and I start reading only the things that read—right, a confirmation bias—that this person is trying to anger me, then I'm going to stand up and go, "Hey, man, you just bumped into my chair!" And now it's going to be a fight. If I look and I go, "Hey," and the guy goes, "No, man, I'm really sorry." So, de-escalation is a process of understanding me. It's nothing to do with understanding you yet. And then the next thing is understanding the situation we're in. Then it's understanding you. But do we do that? No, because we don't understand that access to you was breached, and that's what caused the first anger.

So, access is more than a place. Access is a thing. So, we tell people the parking lot, why do we keep bringing up the parking lot? Because the person's got to get to the parking lot to get access to your front door. So, if we spend some time and money there, and we do some training there, then we're not going to have to have a shot spotter in the classroom and figure out who's got the keys so we can go in and save the kids. So, why don't we talk about those, Brian? We don't talk about those because somebody's making money booting doors and selling tools.

It's our, and I think it's just innate in human beings too, to look for technological solutions. That's how we've survived. I mean, that's literally, we've gotten at this point, that's why we constantly innovate and we constantly want something better, that's newer, and we're looking at that. But when we do, and that's always going to happen, which is fine, that's good, like that—that's good for society. That's made lives easier. That's saved people's lives, absolutely. You know what I mean? That—that's a good thing. But that's oh, that's that's something that's innate in humans. It's going to happen. And we keep leaving stuff on the floor that we're not noticing, and we keep not taking these simple cues sometimes or a simple way to look at it, and so therefore, we miss it, and it continues to happen.

I agree.

And so, you know, when it comes to access and boundaries, too, you know, I look at it from, you know, even this, even from a work perspective, like, "Ah, crap, I want to—I want to get in touch with this guy. I think, I think that he might be interested in what we have." Like, let me look around the periphery. Let me look at their LinkedIn and see who I know that knows them. Let me see and ask around, "Hey, we're going down to Texas, who do I know that knows these folks down here? Hey, can you put me in touch?" The idea is gaining access to the right people through your own connections, you know, for the purposes of, you know, I want to set the—set the groundwork for where we're going. And, and if—and the reason why I bring up that example is, is, you know, if you look at that, how, if you're listening right now, if you look at that ways you do that in your own life, right? Find some examples of where you're trying to gain access. It's probably for a good reason. I mean, it's not—it's not something nefarious, right? If you look at it from that way, you go, "Okay, I see this is about access, and what I'm doing, who's trying to do that to me? Who's trying to do that to my kid? Who's trying to do that to these people over here?" It becomes a little bit easier, and then we don't create that boogeyman, and we don't look at it as a person is this is the monster living in their mom's basement. It's like, "No, it's not. It's the damned teacher down the street that has—"

Exactly right. And runs the youth camp. Like, I'm sorry, this is where we get prostitution wrong. The prostitute, I've never—okay, I was only a copper 27 years, Brian. I've only been in the industry since I was, you know, basically 17, meaning human behavior, right? But I've never once heard, and folks, if you can correct me, please do your homework and reach out. I've never heard of a prostitute going into a Piggly Wiggly, jumping up and grabbing the microphone and going, "Hey, I'll be your prostitute today! Anybody just line up!" They don't go look at it, okay? They go to an area and allow access, right? Because they lower their boundaries.

If someone has internet, just send us that address to that Piggly Wiggly.

Think about this for a minute, though, okay? They don't have to do that. A drug dealer doesn't have to do that. We actively seek out those things, right?

Right, yeah.

And when we look at that, we get it wrong. So, the same thing, how do you find a sniper? How do you find a hooker? How do you find a gosh, a drug dealer? The idea is, it's very simple when you use it. Baseline plus anomaly equals decision. And then you start looking at geographics. Then you start looking at atmospherics. Why, Brian? Because each one of those tools makes it more and more clear of the type of environment where—in which they have to operate. So, why would a coach be more likely to molest kids? They're not. A molester becomes a coach because of access. It's not that all those years later, the Family Guy where Peter's the umpire on the little league and Quagmire goes, "Tommy, you've got the best ass on this field!" Okay, that never happens. "Where do you see yourself in five years doing your son?" Okay, we make off-color jokes about those because somewhere in our heart and in our mind, we know that's not how it happens, Brian. But we don't understand the process.

We still do this right. I still see the same junk out there today, even for, you know, when you're teaching kids about, you know, drugs and partying and stuff like that. You know, when I was growing up, it's like, you know, someone's going to offer you this, and someone's going to do this, someone's going to come—you have this image of this like shady-looking guy pulling up in a vehicle like, "Hey, kids, want some beers and some pot or something?" It's like, no, it's your friend. He's like, "Dude, you want to get high and drunk?" And you're like, you know, this is not—this is—yeah, it's not.

And the first time, the first time you go no, you get what I'm trying to say? And the second time, it's like that kid from Fast Times at Ridgemont High—

Yeah, yeah, okay. All right, yeah. Exactly, exactly.

No, no, you've got to go for Damon before you go for—

Oh yeah, that's right. That's how it starts. Damon is the gateway drug.

Yeah, right.

So, well, that's another thing. It's like, "Oh, there's a gateway drugs," other things like that. That's not a real thing. Like, there's no, it's—it's not one's not going to all of a sudden, you're like, "Oh my—my God, I wanted—" No, you're—you're—you might—you might be more likely to become an addict or something, you know, you might have that genetic makeup, you might have this. But we look at it so incorrectly, and it's—it's and all it does is just makes it—make it—it makes it more difficult to see and identify those people.

Yeah, and that's why I hate all those stories. You saw the video, or the one video, the guy like, go through a parking lot and knock on vans to see if there's like kidnapped children in there. And they're like—

Right. And there were 358 reposts.

And everybody that's like, "What are you talking about? I want to do the right thing." Look, if people run, why do people run from you on foot when you're a cop? Because they do not want to grant you access. Yeah, okay? They are saying that either belongings in my body. Okay? Why do people flee? Well, the number one reason that people flee it goes like stolen cars, you're exactly right, stolen cars to DUI to DWS. Second, you could—you could make a scientific list of those things. But none of those matter as much is the fact that I am denying you access to me. So, so when you start thinking of it that way, what I like, Brian, is the lowest and least objectionable answer. Lowest common denominator, least objectionable conclusion that we can draw from the information we're given that helps us set a scientific basis for what we're going to do next. We talk about it all the time with ML1MD (Most Likely 1st Mile Dangerous) KOA (Course of Action). Most likely course of action, most dangerous course of action. If I walk up on this car, Brian, and the guy's got his license and registration ready and the windows down and vehicle's in park, and he's pulled off the road appropriately, and he goes, "Look, I know I was speeding. I really can't use another ticket for my insurance." You're most likely going to have this type of situation. If it comes up, "What's this about?" This is "crap, my windows half up, I had to turn my radio down." It's likely going to turn into a crap sandwich. And we called it an MD KOA. So, why wouldn't I look for that in my own kid or neighborhood? If we're looking for a sniper or a drug dealer or, again, why prostitution is playing it straight, the idea is, if my kid becomes more distant, if my family member starts tuning out to the other thing that's around, it's different from my baseline, and it's going to be a suicide or they're getting molested, or guess what? They're just going to try a new hair color and they want to spring it on you, and it's going to be a surprise, but it means that something is coming.

Yeah, and I love your point that it's not always criminal. Then why do we have podcasts about it? Because that's all we can do. Because if we had podcasts about sunny, rosy crap all the time, and platitudes and flowers, you wouldn't tune in all the time. Okay? So, we've got to be talking about those things that impact your life adversely, right?

Yeah, or you're not going to want to tune in. You know, and the way, because you brought up like, you know, when we talk about this stuff, we always bring in the access, organization, sophistication. And what the reason why again we use those terms is for sense-making, right? How do I make sense out of a situation that, well, I've never—maybe—maybe I've seen it before, maybe I've read a story about it, maybe I watched a movie or I saw something on A&E, and there's some true crime documentary on it. But like, that's not real to you, and they sensationalize that stuff. Like it's—it's—it's—it's very simple sometimes. The more simple it is, the more effective that person is at being a predator because they keep things simple at that high organization level. They don't rely on a lot of extraneous crap. They don't rely on a lot—

Well, and it could go wrong. There's too many people.

Exactly. You know, it's like we—we could lead back to them. There's so many—

They're exactly right.

And so, so when you know, you look for highly organized people, okay, well, you'll see that. I see that in, you know, my neighbor, when I went to borrow some of his tools, and you go in his garage, and everything has an exact spot on a pegboard, all the screws are in, you know, every single thing is neat and covered in line because they're—they're—they work with tools. They rely on that. So, guess what? I expect a higher level of organization. If I see crap thrown all over the place, right, and there's stuff everywhere, is that the guy I want, you know, working on my sink or my electrical, or my—

Yeah, maybe, maybe not.

Now, if that person's an artist, making paintings or something, okay, who knows, maybe there's going to be crap everywhere. Maybe that's how they get inspiration, and their mind's cluttered, and they get it out through on the canvas. Right? There's different types of personality types you can see. But when I identify those higher levels of organization, it piques my interest. But it also piques my interest in a good way. I want to hire the person that's organized. That's going to be the right time.

You're exactly right. But, Brian, what you keep doing every time you chime in, you come with a very simplistic way of looking at the situation. Yeah, but so am I. And I love that about you because what I read yesterday, and it fell right into my chasing TTPs (Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures) file, because if they chase TTPs, you're going to be busy all your life, and you're never going to catch a bad guy. The person was talking about poisoning, and they were saying, "Hey, in all of the stuff that you do, because this guy in China poisoned a bunch of kids, one died. They executed him in record time." I mean, in China, you don't mess up. Right?

Yeah. But the idea was that it's just like the articles that I've seen about the stabbing. Well, I mean, if a person's going to kill, they're going to kill. It doesn't matter about the gun. The idea is what you're doing is you're saying, "I have to have a separate file folder for every situation. Strangulation has to have a completely—sexual strangulation has a subset and this." And what we look at is the offender and the situation. So, the baseline dictates the type of person that I need to stop in the parking lot. And it's likely that guy dragging that bag full of guns backwards. And you're going, "Yeah, but you're oversimplifying." No, life is oversimplified. You're overcomplicating it. What you're doing is you're taking a look at a TTP and saying, "We have to have a complete workup for our emergency services protocol for this specific event." Now, yeah, you need Narcan or, or you need the number to poison control, and you need to know not to go up at a traffic accident because you can get electric shock. But, Brian, what we're talking there is we're talking big picture. There's a big architecture at work in the life, and it's some very simple gifts that we've been given. Because if we have—if everything in our life was nuanced, and we always had to learn by trying something, there'd be corpses in the street every day. Yeah. You see? So, so there has to be some big overarching rules that—that we follow. And two of those that are both sides of the same coin are access and boundaries. And so, if we can specialize in those, I don't care what you do. I don't care whether you're a teacher or your model manufacturer, you work on people's hair and nails. The idea is that if you understand those things, if you understand the boundaries and the need for them and when to let them down, okay? Because if you never let your boundaries down, you're never going to have kids.

Yeah, there's certain, you know, life truths out there, right? And probably not a very fulfilling life. But, um, exactly. No, and, and again, this goes down to kind of look at it from almost a physiological or biological standpoint. The color red creates certain physiological reactions in my primitive brain without me realizing it. Why? Because biology said, "Okay, when you see red, um, well, blood is red, and blood is supposed to be inside the body, not outside the body." So that it could be a danger sign. But when I couple that with certain other things, like if I put red and yellow together, well, that—that—that has a certain physiological effect on me too. I'm getting primitive signals, but I'm also getting hungry, which is why I have so many fast food places. They're always have red or yellow in there. I mean, look at McDonald's, In-N-Out, all those different places. But, but, and so what we're saying is you—you look for those cues or those simple things that you find in all places and understand, "Okay, this is going to be present or cause a certain reaction or—or a—maybe something as a tool that people use to gain access." So, wherever I see that tool, a key is a perfect example. A key gives you access. So, so if I don't have a key, maybe I have to make a key, right? If certain people are allowed certain keys into certain areas of your home or your building at your office, wherever you go to school, those type of things. It's like, "Okay, so who am I giving a key to in a sense and allowing access?"

And what you just said is you set up an entire industry. So, if I want to overcome your key, I buy a big pair of Doc Martens boots and I boot the door. But if you buy a three-inch screw instead of a one-and-a-half-inch screw, it'll hold more. It'll hold that back, right? So, what we're doing, Brian, is now you've just hit on the scientific method. That's exactly how these things work. You move, and then the wave on this side creates a need, and then I build to bridge that gap. But that's not chasing TTPs. What that is, is understanding the likelihood of what's going to occur next if I can predict that this is a pattern plus the analysis of the pattern.

Yeah, I mean that's—that's—that's adaptation. That's—that's—that's evolution. I mean that's—

Let me—let me—let me say it this way, okay? So, take grandpa or grandma and place them face up on a white sheet and let them vacillate there for an hour, then roll them over on the other side of the white sheet for an hour. Now, I want you to do the same thing with your 1978 Chevy Malibu, okay? If you've got crap that's leaking out, there's something wrong with the vehicle. And if you sample the crap that leaked out, okay, you'll be able to tell exactly where the problem is. So, you can either choose to fix your engine when the engine light comes on, or you can put a Band-Aid on it. And that's what we're talking about here, right?

I didn't know where you were going with that.

Yeah, but hey, I know you're going to try it now. I know you're going to try it with your old man, you know.

Oh God, that's disgusting. But it works. Yeah, in the simplest form of things, the simplest answer, you know, I—I'm saying that when we take a look at this, look in any segment of society, like—like they say, "There's a 10%—" I read this, I can't remember when it was, probably six months ago. They said, "There's a 10% chance that your kid is going to be sexually molested by a teacher during their time in school, from the time they're kindergarten until the time that they graduate." 10% is a huge number. Huge number. And if that's actually true, what are we doing wrong here? There's no question why we have school.

But let's go back. One out of every 10 kids is—come on. Let's go back to what you said about who the most likely offender is. When it's a homicide, who's the most likely offender? Someone they know. Person that's in a relationship with them. Yeah, okay? If it's somebody that's going to molest you, who it's going to be? Most likely a family member because they've already been given an amount of access. Now, why do we say the swimsuit areas are your private thing, and only your parents, you, and the doctor can touch them? Because we need to set boundaries. Go simple, you guys. Spend so much time on this social media, and all you do is make these 15 rules to make God—this thing. Dude, I tune out it too. If you haven't caught me by one or two, I'm not going to listen. So, what we're saying on the podcast, I think what we're saying, Brian, because, you know, you've had very little sleep, and I don't know if you know, we're still on the podcast. But the idea is, what I think we're saying here, Brian, is don't make it bigger than it is. It's probably simpler than you think. And if you take a look at the most basic root causes, there's probably two or three things that you could see that would set a pattern. Three is always better, five is even better. And from that pattern, you can analyze ML and MD (Most Likely and Most Dangerous) and come up, is it a situation where I need to restrict access and create boundaries? Do I need to lower my boundaries with my kids so they'll talk to me? Do I need to take the lock off of their door, you know, and and go in the room and check their phone? You talk about that with the insurgent all the time. This is a function of access and boundaries. And, and, you know what? You've got to feel very open going in and checking your daughter's phone. Max has a phone, folks, but he's just learning to text now because he's only four weeks old. But, no, but seriously, right? When you're talking about that, that's what this is. It's a function of how far you will go to find out what quotients, what variables are important in the pattern to—to in analysis.

And that's what we talk about from, you know, threat mitigation. I know a lot of people always ask us questions about like kind of like some like personal safety stuff, and then what people are calling situational awareness. We don't really get into that stuff because one, people are usually teaching tactics, techniques, and procedures, or something. It's like, that works for you, and you want to carry some weapon or mace, or whatever you want to do that, and you want to have this protocol that you go through everywhere you go, "Hey, man, if it works for you, awesome." Like, I just—but, but, you know, I look at it from this like, "Okay, well, I, how do I deny someone access to me in my face if I don't want them?" It's very simple. Okay, what are some then? Because what you do there is you then can be creative or you can use what you have in that location at that given time, at that given place. And that's the tool versus the, "Well, I always carry a, you know, slapjack on me." It's like, "Okay, but no, you don't. And you're going to forget it one day. And if that's all you're thinking about, I'm thinking about it cognitively. How do I deny someone access right now while I'm filling up with gas? What can I do right now in this environment?" Then the next place I go, "How do I deny someone access to my family when we're sitting here at this, you know, my wallet or whatever, my computer?"

Exactly. Looking at these tools, you keep looking at, you know, the next thing you have to buy. It's like, "Well, then you're—you're always going to be behind the curve. You're always—you have to be tactics exact procedure." And that's—that's—that's generally unnecessary, right? People did that stuff before those things were invented. People were able to survive those situations. So, maybe just maybe you might be able to too, and you don't have to go buy something and learn how to use it. I mean, we're talking about very low calorie, low risk, high—high—high return, right? That's the point of having this sort of cognitive framework and a lexicon in which to describe it, right? Exactly. Make the picture more clearer, right? That—that goes back to your flow raptor, Greg. You're exactly right. And it allows me to not just think of it as one thing that I need to have on me at all times. You know what I mean? Like, yes, I still, like I carry the door wedge and the tourniquet on me all the time when I travel because it's such a low calorie thing.

Exactly. And it's smart. I returned that if you ever need it, it's high—high—high return, and it doesn't take up much space in my bag. But—but I don't rely on that, right? We build in access and denial and boundaries into everything that you do. I mean, that's the purpose. Like we always have our own table set up when we're teaching a course that goes between us and the students over wherever because we need that room. We want, because that's a boundary. You don't get to come behind this desk, right? We established that right up front. Why? Because we build it into everything that we do so I'm not caught behind the curve. And when you look at it like this way, it just becomes a little bit more universal and easy to adopt on a daily basis.

On a daily basis, it's a gem. It's something you can give your kids, you can give your wife, a significant other before they go out to work or to panhandle, whatever it is that they do. So, here's the thing. I've been more—let me talk about an upcoming episode, folks. We've got an upcoming episode, and Brian and I are still doing the time in the research and the background on it because we want to give the right answers to you. And we're going to be talking about trafficking, and we're going to go straight to the world's leading experts on it to make sure that we get you the right answers. While we're doing that, let's talk about the problem. A problem has to have a bunch of hands in it to remain a problem. And I'll give you an example, and if you're a kid, tune out right now, and if you're adults, stay on. Spoiler alert, there is no Santa Claus. Okay? How do we create the myth? I know, I know. Have another shot of bourbon. Bourbon solves so many ills. There is no Santa Claus. So, how do so many kids learn to believe it for so long, and how come some become crushed? Because so many people play along, play along willingly, unwittingly, society and in poems and then everything else because it's cool. Well, I'll tell you right now, for a segment of society, trafficking is cool because it's making them a lot of money and giving them access to a way to lower boundaries. And because there's a phalanx, a guarded chain link and chain mail of those folks, and they use the simplest weapon possible: secrecy. And this whole thing manifests itself into a tough nut to crack. So, all problems are like that, and I'm not saying to diminish your problem. But suicide is like that. Suicide is a battle of wills with somebody that remains silent on something. Maybe they're screaming to you, but you're not reading that frequency. And obesity, and self-mutilation, and all of these things, when you take it down to pattern recognition, the next part always has to be the analysis, and that's not what we're that good at, Brian. That's why OSINT (Open-Source Intelligence) is such a big thing now because you've had to take a giant jump backwards to find out that all of this stuff is immediately available anyway. Right? So, what I'm saying to you folks is that Brian and I consistently try to give you a drop on the tongue that's going to make you smarter, stronger, faster, harder to kill, but you've got to do part of it. You can't just listen to an episode and go out there and go, "I am cured, I am healed." What you've got to do is you've got to look for those patterns every day. Brian said it simple: low calorie intervention every day that makes me a little harder to access, that makes my boundaries a little stronger.

Well, that's what we're talking. Yeah, and you're—you're also, this is how we sort of sift through things, but the project choices too, is starting with good information. And that's—that's the biggest problem right now.

Being intentional.

Well, starting with good information, you know what I mean? I totally agree. It's, you know, why—why dig into and see how all this stuff really works because when I can just watch this two-minute black and white Instagram video of someone talking in a very strange voice, right? You know, it's like—

You're exactly—where's this crap? Like, this is junk. How many junky ones do I send you? I don't know how many thousands you go through a day because every once in a while I'll find one that's so stupid and I'll send it to you, and you go, "Yeah, that's been going around for a month now," or whatever. Yeah. Because it's still surprised—amazing to me that that stuff garners the hits and the likes. Are we that shallow? Is that what it is?

Well, it's, I mean, we can—that—that's a whole another podcast episode that—that plays into just our emotional content. And that once—once you've got someone roped in with that, then you've got them. That's it. I don't need to—if I get you emotional about something, I get you fighting, I get you argued—all right, that's it.

I love it. Yeah, yeah. The monkey on a tricycle, you know what I'm saying? That little pig holding the pinwheel, have you ever seen that one? I don't even care what the product is. I have no idea.

That is true. Because you get the really bad information ones, but then the same ones that go viral are like the adorable or funny cat video, except that plays hormones.

Oh, I love that. "I have a cure for cancer," three likes. Okay. "Yeah, cats falling, you know, wearing a pair of your shoes," a billion views. "Cats slowly pushing your drink off the ledge till it falls on the ground," a million people. Yeah, I love that. So, yeah.

Good point. I think we just wrote another episode.

Yeah, that—that's—I don't know, though. If—when we—anytime I have those conversations with people, they get—they really, really take it the wrong way.

So, partly that, why do you get defensive? Because everyone goes, "Well, you're saying—" I'm like, "No, that's not what I said. That's not what I said at all." No.

And nobody likes to be exposed. Why? Because you have your boundaries up on what? On your opinion. Opinion-based testimony is the worst. Eyewitness testimony is the worst. But your boundaries are probably higher there, and you probably think you're a lot smarter than you are. I know I do, you know.

Well, so much—so much—there's nothing wrong with so much of this stuff is just basic mimicry. People don't even realize what they're putting out there because they're just mimicking what everyone else is doing, which is actually a good thing, meaning that social mimicry means people are communicating. Yes. I take cues from you. Oh, I'm doing the same thing. And now you're just throw—but you're throwing crap out there that you're like, you don't even know what you're doing anymore.

We have a—we have a very good friend that we've known for a long time that every message they send is in bold, size 26. The idea is that we've raised our standards on how much crap that we'll accept and ingest only because the net's getting flooded. And I'll tell you this, folks, we'll answer every interrogatory, every question that you send, every comment that you make. We answer every single one. But if every one of your message starts off in red, Helvetica size 26, that everybody needs to know this, please tell everyone, and it has four exclamation points, "Why are you yelling at me in your email? Your email is angry!" You know?

So, no, I agree with you, and we love that person. We just want that person to do better.

Yeah, to find some balance in their life. Exactly. Any balance. But so we talked about a lot with access, boundaries, and how criminal, terrorists, insurgents will create access if they don't have it, and to try to use these as sort of lenses, you know, "Is this person—" Same thing, "Is this person trying to gain access to me? If so, why?" Meaning, what—what else should? And then it's just that ML/MD Co, are they doing it to victimize me, are they doing it because they came up to me to ask me for help because they're lost? Right? So, people want their say.

Yeah, people want their way. That's fine. People want their say and their way. That's a problem.

Yeah, a person wants access, they're first denied, they continue to try to get access. Well, guess what? Now we have a problem. Here's—then we have a problem because they're demonstrating intent.

You're exactly right.

So, so Brian, I could take a couple of those damn coupon cards and that coupon—what do they call it? Recipe cards. My mom used to have them all the time in the world. I'm so sorry. It's like, you know, I have a new level of frog. I think she was a witch. But the idea is that if you have that, you could put simply two or three of those together with some common things and stick them in your visor. And in the morning while you're warming up your car because it's 32 below in Gunnison, you could take them out and say, "Hey, people want their way, people want their say, but generally they don't want both," or, "Is this person acting out or acting up?" Because if it's acting up, it's okay, but acting out is probably a bad thing. Brian, those simple life rules will help me be smarter and safer. And again, a low-calorie intervention. I could have an advisor in my police car. I could have them duct-taped to my mirror. Remember when we were in Saudi Arabia, and that—I won't say the place or who we were with that time—don't you remember the mirror? And the mirror was all the things to make sure that when you took a look in the mirror before you walked out the room, you remembered those. And what did we do? We just had the different colored index cards with magic marker and a little bit of tape. That's how you can change a life a little at a time, a little each day. So simple.

No, and that—that's—that's—that's why we—we break it down this way, and it's—it's not an oversimplification. I mean, it really isn't. If you—if you look at it from—from sort of this moment—

It's a simplification. Yeah, it's a simplified approach, but it's not oversimplified. No.

And it allows a better understanding of no matter what it is, you know. I agree. So, so just using some of those terms, that's why we talk about it on here. So, I think that's a—that's a good place to end on. There's kind of a lot in there. I always ask people, you know, to—to reach out with your questions to thehumanbehaviorpodcast@gmail.com, and we'll, like Greg said, we'll answer it. If it's something bigger in depth, that's kind of for our Patreon folks. We always get on there with them. And we have that—that side to kind of deep dive or get specific cases, or if someone doesn't want to bring it up on air, we—we have—

Yeah, we're smart enough to be non-attribution. Exactly. We're not—if you ask us not to share it, we're not going to share it. Or only with your photos. Yeah, unless you pay. Holy crap, you pay them to go on. Yeah, that was a great one. What a great call. And I got roped in because my dear friend Brian. No, so the guy knew the website, the guy knew everything, and he was a legit guy. Yeah. So, he talks about the episode and he talks about how much he wants Brian and I on and what part of it he wants us to talk about. And then he hits me with the, "He and he is, yeah, and all you've got to do is pay his 54,000 because for three minutes exposure, I pay you to go on TV." That's what those people on TV get paid to be here. John Candy in Stripes. No. See, if we were in Germany, I'd have to make you bet.

It's a good—we—we may—we may work that into to an episode somehow, but it is a good thing for people to know that when they look at some certain experts or whatever on TV, those shows, they may have—they may have paid. So, that's always good to know. But all right, well, that's all I've got. Anything else for today, Greg?

No, but if I had 54 grand, I wouldn't spend it on it. I mean, that's like—that's like Shelley and I's retirement account times 10. You know what I'm saying? It's like, oh my God, I wish I knew what 50,000 looked like. Yeah, I'm so cheap.

All right. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in, and don't forget that training changes behavior.