L.O.G. 197 Chasing TTPs Stop Trying To Make Fetch Happen

Alright, Greg, good morning. Recording this again on a Friday morning. Let everyone know what the current temp is where you're at.

Twenty below. So, I've had to use these remote lights this morning because the regular switch lights that have lights on the outside walls won't work. It's so cold the electrical current. Oh my God, it wouldn't allow the switch to come on.

So you keep sending me photos in the morning of whatever the temperature gauge is in the FJ, and then finally today I'm like, "All right, it's still going down." I think this thing is just broken. This is the first time in a long time that the garage is 32. So I've had to turn the remote heaters on because everything at 32 is going to freeze: my paint, the weed killer, whatever the hell I got, my fentanyl.

Whatever, exactly. All of that. And we're laughing about that. That's called yellow's humor, folks. But the idea is that I love my wife, so I'm afraid of her. Before she drives, I pull her truck out and warm it up. And it's amazing because that's where the photo is taken, parked right outside. So it's like, "Well, that's..." Yeah, you've got so and we've got the weather center too.

Yeah, yeah.

So I mean, Greg, you've got the whole thing there, the whole setup to, wolf feeding station.

So, today's episode, I want to get into something we've talked about before. We talk about it in class sometimes when we're teaching in person. We've talked about it indirectly on different episodes, but it's about what we call chasing TTPs—so, chasing tactics, techniques, and procedures. And what it is, and how we are constantly updating ours, and we're reacting off of what new thing is happening on the street.

I'll give my explanation of what I think about this, and I'll start with a story. And it's just a very simple way to highlight what I'm talking about. It started a long time ago in Al Anbar province of Iraq. There was an enemy TTP (tactics, techniques, and procedures) that started where they would go and rig different houses with explosives to catch people coming in who were setting up, maybe a sniper team or a reconnaissance team, setting up a hide site. Because you're operating these cities and you're there for a long time, there's only so many places you can hide and go into, right? So they were booby-trapping these homes with explosives, which is obviously something you see in any type of warfare.

But then, people came up with grabbing a can of Silly String and spraying it in there. Because even in the middle of the night, under NODs (night-vision devices), you could spray it, and then you could see if, when it fell, was there a tripwire or some obstruction there? It's a very simple, low-calorie way to detect something like that. And then I remember this one specifically because it became a big push, and then people from the US were trying to ship Silly String over because they needed it. And then people were, it was getting difficult to do. And then there was almost a little mini public outrage about it, "Why can't we get this? This is so easy to get over there, and you're not supporting the guys on the ground." The thing is though, once that stuff gets there, by the time that happens, the TTP has changed. The enemy is doing something else, right? So we get into this loop of chasing those things.

I'll give a brief explanation of what I mean by that, and here's what I think happens. So, when we're faced with some new, novel circumstance—and I want everyone listening to think broadly about this—it could be a school shooting, a new way to steal a car, break into a house, a new business tactic, a new product, a revolutionary technology. I'm using that in air quotes because everyone calls those things "revolutionary," and then it ends up not really having as much impact as we think. But it could be a new drug hitting the street. Insert whatever problem you think you're facing.

And what we do as humans, we analyze it. We do some breakdown of the event or person or situation. And that could be mentally, right there in the moment, or that's on a YouTube commentary, or a full-blown after-action review. We do some analysis. But the problem I see with some of the commentary and analysis of these problems is that it either has a strong bias for some simple proximate cause: "Oh, he was fired from work, and that's what led him to do this." Or one, people pick a strong bias for a single contributing factor. Greg, "He was abused as a child." And these are oversimplified ways of looking at an issue. It doesn't take into account the fact that the world is a complex system that interacts with you every time you interact with it, and it changes frequently. So you've got more than just you interacting with it and interacting with you. There are other people about it, and there are different, the poles are shifting, and all this other stuff nobody ever takes into account.

Right, right.

So, right out of the gate, we fail at the initial analysis. Well, unless, like, you're the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board). We'll get to that example later. But, so we kind of fail right out of the gate with this analysis. So then when it's trying to figure out what to do about this, we often apply some technological solution to the problem. So it becomes this algorithm of stimulus-response, stimulus-response, right? And so rather than getting ahead of the next TTP, we get really, really good at whatever the response is. And because we're innovative people, and people will work really hard, and people are really smart, and they want to come up with a detailed, sophisticated, well-funded answer, that's exactly what we do.

And the problem with these answers is that they typically only solve one single math problem. So rather than creating an algorithm or a set of problem-solving tools that will allow us to solve many problems, we focus on just this one thing that may no longer be relevant in the near future. So the idea is, rather than building a calculator that solves a number of different problems, we create the greatest calculator that only does division, and then another calculator that only does subtraction. And then rather than truly testing our calculator, we use ends justification to show that our new model that we developed actually worked. And additionally, we feed spurious and scurrilous, sometimes, information into it to support it, which, what is that called? There's a bias that... yeah, right, bias. Real quick, I just want to—and this is kind of what I'm trying to say with this, and what we're talking about today, is I'm actually telling people to take your advice, Greg, and your advice for the first time, to listen to the words of a young North Shore High School student by the name of Regina George, who said, "Stop trying to make fetch happen!" It's not going to happen.

Precisely. And you know why TTPs are quickly adopted and even more quickly forgotten? And we want to talk today about why they don't work. Well, let's do this. Let's look at the 30,000-foot level. Tactics: what you do. Techniques: how you do it. Procedures: how you do it. You know what's not in there? The "why." All right? And we love to focus on "how," but it's not the "why" thinking behind it.

So, on Monday, hours before the anniversary of Marjory Stoneman Douglas, and hours before Valentine's Day—which anybody that's ever listened to you and me, Shelley Martin, or our podcast knows, "Danger, warning Will Robinson!"—that could happen, right? We had Anthony Dwayne McRae in East Lansing walk onto the Michigan State University campus, and shortly after 8:00 PM, he goes into Berkeley Hall, fires some rounds, killing and injuring. Then goes across the hall to the Student Union, which is a very popular gathering place at that time. Remember it's Michigan, remember it's winter. It's been dark for hours, and it's wicked cold and wet. Okay? And so he goes there and fires more shots. And then, I think it was, in present memory, recollected, a few hours later, around 11:30, sometime after 11:00 PM, they say, "Hey, this is our shooter." Local citizens who know the guy said, "Hey, he's over here." They go, and he shoots himself.

So what? So, are we just another podcast that's going to talk about the shooting? No, what we want to talk about is the TTP. And first of all, we've got skin in the game because Arielle Anderson and Brian Frazier were from Grosse Pointe schools, and that's my brother Brian's wife, Lynn, is very close to that. We don't want to get into that because it takes us off the point. You know what the point is, Brian? That this was a black male, which doesn't fit the algorithm. He was 43 years old. Wait a minute, that doesn't—that's the algorithm! He goes to a school he's not associated with, that doesn't fit the algorithm. It's at night, that doesn't fit the other. Brian, I could go five more, ten more points that there are books written, courses out there, and people that testify on CNN every day about how you follow this algorithm, you'll be able to stop the shooter. So what happened here? So we need to go study this and do a new algorithm and write a book about it.

Yeah, yeah. And again on... late night shooters. Yeah, exactly my point. And this is what we're trying to say: if you have a good set of rules, (like) Pythagoras, and that rule can be applied to more things than just the one thing that's in your hand that you're staring at, then you're probably coming up with something good.

And I'll give you an example of how the old Greek saying, very old and very Greek, Pythagoras—shout out there, Erasmus, you too, yeah—but let's think of, gosh, I always get it wrong, El Paso. I can't imagine why I get El Paso wrong, but there's so many places in Texas we've taught, so we know El Paso pretty well. And there's a mall in El Paso hours after the shooting in East Lansing that has a shooting too. And guess what? Journalists rush to the point and say, "Here we have an active shooter!" We didn't have an active shooter. We got two gangs of kids that started firing rounds at each other. It's a random, spontaneous event that happened to take place in a mall. And so everybody starts responding in kind, thinking, "Oh, this is what we do in the lockdown and the run, hide, and fight." The idea is you have to have a basic, overarching philosophy on how to deal with situations in extremis and situations in progress. And if you don't have that, and you don't hypothesis test, and you don't rehearse, you're going to fail. It's just that simple.

So, and I go way back to Brown v. Board of Education. Segregation is a bad idea. Post-Civil War, what did we spend all our time trying to do? Dismantle segregation, right? Dismantle all the laws that now we look back and say there was no equity there. There was no chance for certain people of color to advance. And so what does Brown come in? Brown and four other cases that went on in the '50s sat there and said, "Hey, these are really shitty ideas. Let's pile on the fuel and make them even dumber." Right? So you've got the Supreme Court, and what's—you know how much I love the Supreme Court. Yeah, what's the role of the Supreme Court? To reach in and slap you on the forehead and go, "Wait a minute, take a step back, too far." Right?

So, Justice Harlan comes up and says, "Hey, there's this thing called the 14th Amendment, yeah, that's really pretty important." And he made one of my favorite quotes of all time: "Our Constitution is colorblind and neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens." Now you're going to have people right now listen to this podcast, "You're not true! SCOTUS is this, and we voted in Republic!" Now don't forget about the Constitution. Yeah, we're talking about humans that are interpreted accounts. Well, wait a minute, has that ever happened? Do we have Jews that spend their entire lives reading the Talmud? Do we have Arabs that spend their entire life, you know, taking a look at the Quran and saying, "No, this is what it means, Brian." We've got a long, rich history, which means that there's probably precedent, yeah, for doing what? For taking a look at ideas and saying this is good and this is bad.

So let me throw just one more answer that just happened weeks ago. Now, you've got Arizona, and Arizona passes House Bill 23-19. So it's still in the socialization stage. And what does it say? It says police officers have the discretion to decide whether they want to be recorded from within eight feet. The law specifically says it's unlawful for a person to knowingly make a video recording of law enforcement activity if the person making the video recording is within eight feet. That's not reasonable, okay? Wait a minute, is there an amendment that says, "Yeah, you have the First Amendment right?" Yeah, these are not exempt, they're not private. Their actions are the most public events.

Well, that's the thing. It's very well established that you have no reasonable expectation of privacy when you're in public. You do not, you are in public. That's different in your house or someone's house or at different location. But when you are in public, you, someone can record you. They can't harass you or assault you.

No, somebody from Arizona is going to call and go, "Hey, the entire purpose of the law was to prevent interference with law enforcement officers." Yeah, that's true, but that's not what it's being used for. It's being used to prevent that and prevent videotaping officers. And the First Amendment clearly protects that, and so you can't do that. And so somebody's going to go, "Well, that's not what we meant!" Yeah, I don't care how well-intentioned your idea is. The idea is that it's, I'll say one last thing to get off of my rant, Brian, these are YTPs (Your Tactical Procedures). TTPs don't stick around, okay? Yeah.

I'm teaching at the FBI National Academy, and all of a sudden a student stands up, and he's a very famous student, I'm not going to name him. And his dad is a general, and I'm not going to name him because both of them have been in the news a number of times. So what I'm talking about is I'm talking about attention, and you know how we do that in class, what you attend to, and how you can become overwhelmed by events or overcome by emotion. So I'm going through that thing, and I said, "Hey," because this is how long ago it was, I said, "This new fascination with texting is worse actually than talking on your phone in your car, and your divided attention is going to lead to more accidents, more fatal accidents, more loss of work because people are going to be sitting at a light, you're going to have to beep for them, then they're going to rush through." And this kid raises his hand, this kid we're talking about, and he goes, "Well, how do you prove that? That's ridiculous! There's no scientific basis whatsoever for that."

Well, first of all, my job is predictive analysis, so blow me. Second thing is, how do you feel now? Would you like to go back on the air? Would you like to come on the podcast? Because you know what happened, Brian? He looked down, and in, with three rules that he himself invented, and only searched tabloids for information. That's important. That's when TTPs fail. It's a knee-jerk reaction. We try to rush in and put gauze on something, yeah, before doing triage, before assessing what this might mean. And we don't have to over-analyze it, but don't we have to take a look at some of the spirals of an event? So...

And that's what I got into and why I said that right up front, is what happens? We don't do analysis very well. We do commentary. There are very few places that do analysis really well. So, if you're an investigatory body, like, we, you rag on the FBI all the time, but when they build a case, what do they do? They don't arrest someone until they have an airtight case, and know this is going to lead to prosecution. They're going to jail. They don't waste their time because it's so detailed and it takes so long, right?

It's the same thing. A great example that I know you've used before in class too: the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board). When there's an accident, or a plane accident, they come in and they recreate it. They rebuild that plane, they look at everything, and they study it, and they test it, and they identify every... they find what was the proximate cause, and then they look at every contributing factor that led to this event happening. And what they do, there's a great one that I know you always talk about, might as well talk a little bit about here. But the idea was, they didn't say, "Okay, it was the plane manufacturer, or this thing was faulty." It was, "Hey, you know what? It wasn't this pilot's fault. Right? He wasn't trained for this situation." And if you're in a situation that you weren't trained for, that's not your fault. It's a crap shoot. Well, you could either be Sully, right, and you'll land that plane in the Hudson. Yes. Right? Or you're going to be someone who doesn't have his 30 freaking years of experience on that single airplane.

And so Freeway Baptist Church had both, though, Brian. Let's go there for just a second. Freeway Baptist Church had Jack Wilson, who is Sully in the audience, and people in the audience all knew something was going to happen. The woman that was taking communion said, "Hey, listen, I love it here. This is a great place, but we're bailing because something's wrong with this guy." Sully knew it. He started moving in close. Jack—the people were talking about it on their, the security people on their, the camera. They still waited till the shooting. Why? Because analysis paralysis sets in. A TTP becomes a mantra that we throw up there to save us, like "Five and 25." "Check your fives and 25s." Okay? Well, there's a TTP, kind of, that's going to live forever. Why? Because it's so much better than—

Yes, it's better than "Keep your head on a swivel."

It says, "I'm coming out, I want to check one five-meter and 25-meter because that's where the likely danger is." So I'll buy that one, and that one's going to have long legs. But I won't buy "Keep your head on a swivel" because it's word salad.

Well, what happens is, it's like, you give the example sometimes of when we talk about organization and sophistication and about stealing a car. And the example you use is that the actual specific TTP is not really relevant anymore in terms of that type of vehicle. But that's not the point, we're not teaching that. But here's the thing. It went from using the spark plug with the porcelain tip to bust out the vent window, get access to the vehicle, make a small hole in the column, and you can gain that. Well, that same thing works, but now it's like the Kia boys, where you literally need a USB cable. It's identical, identical, right? And the only thing is, that small thing changed the TTP, which sent all previous TTPs up in smoke.

Yes, yeah.

So the other idea is, it's like, I can either go out and build a detector that detects precursors to methamphetamine, right? So I want to find a meth lab, I can do that. Some type of drug lab. I can also go out and build some sort of sensor for the same thing for a bomb lab, right? Because there are certain things that need to be there. But there's also a whole bunch of stuff that I don't need to know and understand about how to make that, that I need to know to use that. Because if I understand what a double boiler is, or always works, what cooling and venting and heating is, I can put all of those things together and go, "Well, yes, I'll find that in my kitchen right now." But it won't look like this, it's out of place here. So, understanding it's not a TTP if these are the things I need to look for. Because guess what? When we were teaching that, that was before anyone knew what fentanyl was, but that same system will work to find it. It'll apply for anything.

Exactly.

So finally, what we're talking about is, we come up and we over-engineer solutions. And it's well-intentioned, it's just poorly done or poorly executed. And people don't want to believe this, but I've seen teams of really, really, really smart people who work really, really hard with a lot of funding, create solutions that don't matter. That really truly doesn't matter. But when you're in the trenches and you're working on a problem, and you think you're coming up with gold, and you're pouring your heart and soul into this, it's sad to see that because you're like, "This isn't going to help the situation." And you're pouring all these calories into it. And we've seen that before. Tech companies do that stuff all the time, and they all rally, "Oh, we're going to do this!" And you're like, "Yeah, your stuff blows. This doesn't solve any problems."

We had a conversation this week with an entity that we admire, that their basic thumbnail was to start tabula rasa, start all over again, to try to catch up with the competition. Yeah, and Brian, that's a non-starter. But when you're so close, you can't see it. So I would be embedded with the EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) Iraq, and EOD hated me because I wasn't a trained EOD guy. And they're like, "Well, what are you doing here?" And they would tell me about the red Russian dead cord and the feet per second for this and that. And I go, "That's great. But I'd say the place that's building this bomb is close by to where we are." And they would go, "How do you know that?" And I go, "Well, have you ever had your wife—" (That's my dog playing with that, so if you hear that in the background, that's not my stomach.) "Have you ever had your wife or husband or whoever your significant other is try to take a cake, like a wedding cake, a long distance to a wedding? Or have you ever tried to carry something like eggs, and you're trying to carry them into the kitchen?"

Okay, so here you've got a guy that's carrying something that's illegal. And it's not only illegal, it's highly explosive. It's not only highly explosive, but if it goes off, it's going to kill him. And if somebody sees him with it, they're going to kill him. So how far do you think that person wants to go? And Brian, how long do you think they want to be out there in place? People make mistakes, and they go, "Well, what you're doing is you're kind of putting a human touch on something." And I said, "No, anything a human touches puts a human touch on something, and you can read it." So guess what started happening, Brian? We started creating co-TTPs. They would talk about the Italian landmine, and I would talk about the tactic, the technique that the person used, and how they would repeat that technique over and over. And now that TTP changed, didn't it? Because you had subject matter experts chiming in on what types of things to look for.

I remember being on the Tigris from Euphrates, and they had hundreds of the fly-fishing rods that were shipped over from America. And they're going, "Why would these guys buy this?" And it was like, "Well, low metallic signature pressure plate." And then everybody goes, "Oh, crap!" Because they didn't see it. Why don't you see things? Because you're too close. And then guess what they did? The TTP list came out and said, "Fishing rods are our best." Then what do we target? That one thing, versus how people do, how it's done. Or, we don't look at, we're going to look at the behavior associated. What are the things that we need to look for? It's, "Here's this one thing we need to find right now. This is the big issue." And by the time they printed that warning, Brian, the people knew that they had confiscated the fishing rods, and those rods were no longer relevant.

Well, it's the drug smuggling, it's the same thing. What happened this past year around Halloween? All these photos go around about, "There's fentanyl candy and stuff coming through!" And what's the real story? Well, some dope smuggler tried to smuggle drugs into the country, and they used a candy thing to mask their movement. And what did people take that as? "Oh my God, they're going to be drugs!" And it's like, what? First of all, drug dealers don't typically give out free drugs to kids and pass it around like candy, because, one, they're trying to make a profit, right?

Right.

And they don't want to get caught. It's like we come up with these ridiculous bogeyman theories.

And we have to—that's the precise reason why TTPs fail, is because most TTPs that we've seen are based on fear. And so you're dealing with the fear, not with the problem. You're dealing with the human, not with the situation. So, a good way of thinking about situational awareness, which I coined and stole from the computer industry, is call it something different, because in psychology and human behavior, it's called omnidirectional vigilance, right? And what that means is that you're attending to your environment very clinically, okay? And it's a great trait, and you can practice it, you get better at it, but it's not sustainable. It's hyper-vigilance. So these people that are out there saying, "Watch this and watch that," and have all these CTTPs, Brian, we know what channel capacity is. You can't stay hyper-vigilant for very long, or something's going to fall out. Your TTP is not set in stone.

It's the best way when you, right, because you need to have tactics, techniques, and procedures at your organization, right? It doesn't matter what it is, you have to have them.

Yes.

The problem is, get married to them and we think, "This is what I've got. This is what it will apply to every employee and every situation." And the thing is, it's just the best way, hopefully it's the best way you know how to do things right now. That's it. That's going to change. Those are constantly in flux. And so if you're still trying to do something from 1997 and it's 2023, I'm sorry, it's outdated, it's not going to work. So you can't look at it. And the point I'm making with this is that the TTP isn't the answer, right?

Let me comment about that. Yep.

Don't be so focused on this process of how I do things, because it's going to fail you eventually.

Brian is exactly right. And take a minute, pull over, grab your yellow pad, and write this down. So we've conducted so many vulnerability assessments, and when we finally get around to talking to their security chief or their head of security—everybody's got a different title and a different name for it—we say, "Hey, we want to see your policy and procedures manual." First of all, they have to go find one. Second of all, when they find it, it's a dusty old relic that they pull out, and they go, "You know, we were just updating this." Brian, how many times? If we had a dollar for every time, we could retire, right? And the idea is that what they do is they say, "It's in writing, so therefore it's occurring." Well, that's not true. Not true a bit.

So, how long did it take simple things like seatbelts to take hold? Okay, we know seatbelts save lives. We know it's a great idea. And then what did cops do? I remember what cops did when it started becoming a law, and everybody had to enforce it, and everything. Cops were like, "Yeah, but that's for civilians, we don't have to wear them." And then the agencies and departments started coming, "Well, because, you know, UPS guy and me—I'm as a cop, Brian, I get out of my car too many times, so it's inconvenient." The problem is you can't have it that way. You have to have tactics, techniques, and procedures. For example, a fire drill. And a tactic, technique, and procedure is the laminated sheet in the seat back when you're on a plane. "Hey, this is a best-case scenario guideline," yeah, "to how to do the oxygen and the flotation device and all those other things." Okay? So it's topical and it covers many instances, but you have to use critical thinking to go further with those. So you can't use it as a Bible verse and cast it out and think that it's going to work for everybody in every situation.

And that's why I called those... I wrote you yesterday about that LinkedIn post about the douchebags that were writing about the MSU caper. And all of them are saying, "Everybody should carry guns! Every kid should be mandatory! We have the training, come to us! We could have fought our way out of this!" But kiss my ass. Well, every situation is dynamic and developing. It can't have a rigid, you can't stand it for any of this one standard rule. That's the always thing.

And we don't understand, as humans, we don't understand probability and statistics very well. We're not wired at. It's got to be right in front of our face because it's a very simple... that's a very simple math equation. I don't care what your stance is on guns, it's very simple: the more guns that are in an environment, in this situation, the more likely someone is going to get shot. It's just that simple math. It doesn't matter what it is. It's like, the more people you have in a crowd, the more likely someone in that crowd isn't going to like another person in that crowd. The possibilities open up.

So, as a very simple, make you jump, a very simple thing of, "Oh, well, just let's give everyone guns!" Like, okay, but now you open up the whole someone accidentally doing something, someone this happened. It's just such a simple, stupid solution. That doesn't mean... that's meaningless, it's worthless, it's junk. It's like there's no analysis here. Well, it's like, "This is the thing right here in front of my face, that's the problem!" It's like, okay, it, you know, the headache might not be a problem. You might have a freaking brain tumor, you know what I mean? It's like, "No, I got a headache!" It's like, "No, no, you have a brain tumor, so it's causing the headache."

Yeah, the old joke was that the straw in the glass. "Hey, when I go like this with my glass, you know, my eye hurts," because it's usually the simplest thing. So I would tell you if you're listening to my voice, that playing Sudoku, playing World of Minecraft, or I don't know any of these games, doing all those different things, even first-person shooters, are going to make you smarter and faster and harder to kill. Anything that takes you to the cognitive gym and makes you expend some mental calories is going to improve your thought process and your cognitive agility.

Now there's accelerated learning where we go to the cognitive gym, and we show you. Brian was nice enough to give me the Sam and the Marine workout, and I did that from my birthday all the way till Christmas. I lost weight and I felt stronger. Why? Because I had somebody standing there yelling at me, and somebody held me to task, and I had to complete those things. When you do that, no matter what it is, Brian, you're increasing your intellectual acumen for unknown situations. Why? Because just standard rehearsal, like this fallacy of the 10,000 repeat behaviors—

Oh, God, yeah. A scientist did not come up with that.

Exactly. Or an author. What happens is, if you repeated behavior, you get better at that behavior. Now that means public speaking. That means Marty Cohen's Pro Practice. I love the analogy: Marty wanted to build something for the banking industry that was like a tennis machine that shot the balls at you, and you got better every time you returned that serve. It makes sense, Brian. So you've got to also relegate it from muscle memory skills, which means a procedure that you do, to being cognitively agile, which I talked about just a minute ago. And what is cognitive agility? Cognitive agility is when faced with new, novel, or incoming information, you're able to use your tacit and experiential knowledge to leverage a likely answer that will likely work. Likelihood is the key there, right? Yes. Is it going to work on every encounter? Certainly not. And so anybody that tells you it will is full of crap.

Having a gun in this situation, so many things would have had to come to light. And I'm talking about the MSU situation, Brian. You'd have been close enough to the shooter. You'd have been tuned in that he was actively shooting. You'd have to be able to out-shoot the shooter. You get what I'm trying to say? There's all of those factors. Come on. It's like getting hit by an asteroid burning in, you know, you just happen to be on your bike at that day, at that time, turning left.

Well, no. And this is why when I look at a solution to a problem, a problem can be... if I look at a problem and I say the solution is a series of decisions, right? It allows me to say, "Okay, I have choices." And I might not have the best choices in these situations, but I have choices nonetheless, right? Meaning what it does is I can then mentally say, "Okay, wait. I can influence the outcome. I can influence the situation." It's not because it gets you out of this idea of, "Okay, what's going on now? Okay, now we need to do this. What is he doing now? Okay, let's do this." And it's like, exactly, if they have the momentum, if they have the initiative there, you're always behind it. And I feel like societally that's how we just do things. We're chasing it again. We're chasing everything rather than trying to get ahead of something.

And so it becomes constantly the same thing over and over again where people fail to anticipate any other thing that could potentially happen. There's one, the video just came out now. It's an off-duty Chicago police officer, and she ended up shooting—I think the guy died. I just read it when it came out and saw the video. Because she was off-duty, went outside of her apartment where she lived. There were some people arguing, whatever. So she tried to de-escalate it and get people, "Hey, get out!" And most of the people left, and then one guy didn't. So she's trying to go back inside, and then it's on video, he basically attacks her, goes for a gun, starts wrestling. And she's trying to handle him. She says, "I'm going to kill you if you keep! I'm going to kill you!" And then she gets her gun out, and this is like at contact shot, very close, shoots him a couple times. And he's still talking to her and still going. He's like, "Oh, man!" And he's apologizing, but he's not giving up. He's still got his hands on her. He's not running away. He's not going back. Anything. And she's still saying, "I told you, I told you, I told you!" And then it escalates from there. And I don't want to get too much into it because it just came out, but you could see the video.

But the idea was, everyone goes, "Well, okay, this guy attacked her." Yes, clearly! But did she fail to anticipate the fact that she's going outside to break up an argument and that things could spiral wildly out of control? I mean, if a gun wasn't present, there certainly is one now. Yeah. And then that's what I'm saying, everyone wants to watch and break down the video and have their shitty commentary. Yes. They don't ever wind the tape back, and they don't ever wind that tape back and go, "Whoa, whoa, how did this situation come to be?" Because you're always the protagonist, Brian.

Yeah, we're always—this is the other part here—you have to narrate your own story. So, you're saying, like, "Folks, I've been in so many after-action reviews and debriefs," two completely separate things, "where I've seen Shelley or Brian step up and go, 'Okay, we're going to start with me. This is what I did wrong.'" And I love that approach because it's like, "Okay, now we, mea culpa, we got it on the table, we can get past it." The idea is that what you need to do is be more of a paramedic in this situation. And think, "Is it better now, the pain, than it was just a second ago? Is it getting better, or is it getting worse? What are the things complicating me, obstructing my airway, causing me to bleed?" And what I mean is not that application in a first aid sense, Brian, but in this situation you're in. Okay, did I just step into a rapidly unfolding situation, or am I causing it? So, is me staying escalating it, or can I leave? Right?

Yeah, no, no, you're getting right into it. And this is how our approach is to situations and a lot of the different concepts that we teach. And it's not a tactic, technique, or procedure because most people get very procedural training. So they become very prescriptive: "When I see this, I have these options. Then I can call for this. This person now escalated and is within a distance from me and did this thing, so now I have option C or D I can choose from as well." And it's like, but it's not... So what we offer a lot of times, because you're just starting to sort of bring it up, is my question to you then, Greg, is, "Well, what can I do if the tactic, technical procedure isn't always the answer, because I still need those, but it's an answer or a tentative one, or one for specifics? Like, what are these general things that you're talking about?"

Exactly. So critical thinking is key here because I take you back to the cognitive gym. So I've got a number—and I'm not going to be able to think of the names of the things right now—but I've got a number of things in the house right directly behind that wall that I'm staring at in our pantry, in the home office here, "family truckster," are specifically designed that if you have a reaction to something that they'll slow the reaction enough so you can get to a hospital. Neither Shelley and I are allergic to anything, but I still have the EpiPens on the shelf. I have the drinks that metabolize the poisons—the ipecac—to throw them out if you have to. And we update them by date and we throw them out. Why? Because in the 13 years we ran the ranch, and the 27 years we were a cop, and in all the times we were for it, those are the things that if you said, "Oh my God, what we could have right now would be this!" Right? And that thing... Benadryl. Benadryl as well. You just never have enough of that stuff around when you need it, right? And the same thing with the PFAC (personal first aid kit) and a personal first aid kit with something as simple as tweezers. Do you know how much tweezers help in a situation? So you're saying, "We all need to go out and buy tweezers?" No. And I'm saying you have to look at this.

I'll give you an example. You know how much I love Charlie. Charlie and I go antler hiking all the time. And so we'll stop for a power lunch, and simple stuff that Shelley packs that are fun and rehydrate you and keep you mentally focused because we're miles and miles from the vehicle, and we're in an arena of mountain lions and bears that could eat and kill you. So, those type of situations where it's you against the environment, you against a terrorist, you against a criminal, you literally have to do smart things, and you have to repeat those good behaviors. How many times have we done an evaluation on a place, Brian, where they blocked a door open that was a fire door or a security door? And we saw that just—I won't say that we're in St. Louis and we looked at a couple of places—but the idea is that we were, and guess what? Smokers were the worst offenders, Brian. What did they do? They blocked those doors open, they went out for a little bit, and they violated all security protocols by doing that.

In Colorado, people don't like to be cold. So when I pull up to the Safeway or City Market, there's nobody in the car and the car is running. And it's like, "Okay? Well then, don't call me when your car gets stolen." Right? So if we willfully—who's responsible for your own personal safety? You are, largely you are. And then society, and then the police, and everybody else, right? But the idea is, if you walk around and don't look where the security cameras are, if you walk around and aren't mindful of the exits, if you take your Christmas stuff and put it next to your water heater in your freaking house, it burns down. Yeah, and you don't check the lint screen on your dryer, Brian, who's responsible? So the idea is, I would rather play in a realm where there are simple rules that apply, like gravity is a simple rule. Okay? Entropy is a simple rule. So the more I understand about the science, the better critical thinker I am when something comes up to me that's novel, nuanced, or an external arousal that surprises and shocks me. I'm a better way to think my way out of it, not shoot my way out of it.

Yeah, and you're talking about still some of them sort of like TTPs of simple, low-calorie things. But I kind of like that this is why we use a lot of what I would call thinking points, something that you can apply to any situation, no matter what it is. So it's not about the EpiPen or the Benadryl or something. I'm talking about, you know, what you're really saying is, did you have, do you have the tools you need if these situations may arise, and did you check that?

I'm saying one more. I'm saying one, did you check that one step to the left of them, Brian? I'm saying, have you imagined what tools you will need in a situation? I'm not even saying going out and buying them. I'm saying that the thought game that you should be playing every day is, what tools might I need today, and where would I find them? That's the first stage, right? Then you start coming up with the tools. I totally agree with you, but I'm saying we have to think even further left to that.

So, I, we use one, and let's say you're sitting in a restaurant, or you're checking out at the, you filled up your car with gas, you're inside, you're buying some energy drinks, some Rip-Its, whatever, some snacks, right? And you've got the little hot dog that's been out on that roller all day long, whatever it is. And you're checking out. Exactly. And you've got someone up there who's at the counter, and he's mouthing off to the person working there, or something's going on, right? And one of our things that we use is, "Does this person want their say, or do they want their say and their way?" The idea is, meaning, is this person just complaining that they're being overcharged for something, or pissed off because this or that, or is there some other intent behind what this person is doing? Is it just complaining to the manager about their food, or are they going to go out into the parking lot, get the gun out of their car, and come in shooting? Right? Those are different. But that's a simple thinking point, okay, to understand a situation.

But what do most people do? It's, "Okay, they apply a tactic, technique, or procedure. Okay, I'm going to set this stuff down. I'm going to gain distance. I'm going to pull my concealed weapon out." It's like, if you're already creating, and you're making a situation occur, right? You're already creating an outcome before you ever took a look at the situation to determine what was likely happening and what was going to happen next. So what you do is you then influence yourself, and you influence the environment, and it pushes right back on you. And now, man, that train's heading down that track, and there's another one coming at another one that's getting to that intersection. Right, right? So the idea is, it's faster and it's harder to solve, and you sped it up. You sped it up, you as the person or mere presence, created a conundrum.

Brian, I hate to use Greg-isms, but folks, if you're listening again, and you've got your kid in a car, look at them and go, "Today I want you to understand the difference between 'acting up' and 'acting out.'" A person that's "acting up" is no problem whatsoever. They just want their say. They're just pushing you around a little bit to get a rise out of you. The person that's "acting out" or about to act out, that's the most dangerous player on the battle space right now, and you need to address that. And sometimes, Brian, addressing that is reverse. And sometimes addressing that is leaving. And sometimes addressing that is calling 9-1-1 and having the one finger hanging over the button. Those are the type of TTPs we're talking about. Those visits to the cognitive gym will make you smarter, stronger, and harder to kill. But do we get that in a CCW class? Do we get that when we go to these tactics, boot-and-doors, and ramming cars, and using explosive entry tools? We don't... we don't think about those, and those are much more important factors because you learn from each trip down there, even if that trip is solely in your head.

Yeah. So I have a cousin who's, he's much smarter than me, older than me, but he's a, we'll say, think tank kind of guy. And spent some time working around in Virginia. So shortly after 9/11, he was at a very important meeting with some very high-ranking people. Yes. And they're sitting around in the room, because obviously 9/11 had just happened, so people were going, "Okay, what...?" Trying to come up with potential or likely scenarios of something that happens again. And this person who was running the meeting was a very important general, was doing the, "Okay, we really, we got to, we got to stretch our minds here. We got to come up with creative ideas. Right? I want people thinking outside the box. What other possibilities are there? Do we have any other buildings that we think they might do this to?" And he, like, slapped himself in the forehead, quite like that, that "You missed it!" But the immediate thing was, "Okay, what other buildings do we think they might likely attack next?" And it's like, "No, we missed that one. It's so unlikely that that's ever going to happen again because we've created that now defense of it, and covered the seams and gaps, and created this." It's like, but a bunch of smart people who do that for a living fall into that cognitive trap of this biased question: "Here's what it is right in front of me." And I just think that's such a powerful analogy for exactly what we're talking about here.

You're spot on again. And the idea is, how many times have you heard me rail that people still die from drowning? And you've heard me say that a thousand times this year so far to different crowds and everything. And people miss what I mean by that. Yet last weekend in Michigan, three guys died ice fishing because the weather changed, the ice broke, and they drowned. They couldn't stay survival floating until somebody got them out of there.

And Brian, those are the things we're talking about. If it's as simple as not putting high-value dollar items visible inside your car, locking them in your trunk, how simple is that? Taking a rain jacket when you go hiking in Colorado, because you know the weather's going to change. And if you become hypothermic, you're likely not going to survive the situation. If you don't have a CamelBak, where's your canteen or where's your alternative water source? And if I'm drinking one, I'm going to hand you one because I want to make sure you think about it. Brian, those are great policies and procedures or TTPs that you can instill in your kids and in your family, and they work anywhere. They work at school, and they work at play, and they work in combat. That's what we're talking about.

I swear to God, I would love to do a situation, but we've got to do a podcast on zombie apocalypse and The Last of Us, and all that other stuff, and show how quickly society can erode. And why will it erode? Because, first of all, we could do it from the psychological aspect of why people want an apocalyptic event. But we could also do it by who is going to survive. People think they're going to survive because they're more resilient. Brian, resilience isn't enough. There are entire resilient societies that are no longer on the face of the planet because they died out because they repeated bad behaviors. That's the idea. You have to learn from those behaviors, Brian. You can't keep going in. Look, if you're an IndyCar driver and you keep driving at very high speeds, sooner or later you're going to crash. And your crash is going to be much worse than my crash because I drive like a grandma. And when I'm not driving, you're driving, so I'm pretty good there.

So the idea is that the sooner you understand that critical thinking is a much more important skill than a shooting skill or a combatives classroom—and we're not saying not to go to those classes—but we're saying if you don't exercise your mind and visit the cognitive gym, you're doing yourself a disservice.

You could avoid some of that if you're out-thinking the situation. I mean, that's an essence, and tactical patience, that's the whole point. Why, you know, the martial arts thing or the fighting is a perfect example because every five to every ten years or so, it changes on what it should be and everyone should learn. And so right now it's Jiu-Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. And it's like, which is great, it's awesome, it's awesome, right? Don't get me wrong. But I don't ever want to be on the ground fighting someone, ever. Like, if I failed, I have failed at that point to dial in and say, "How many percentage of the fights end on the ground?"

Yeah, look, every martial artist that's at your level or my level or a very high level has come to the same conclusion: avoidance is the best mitigation tool, because anything can happen in a fight, even if you're the most highly trained individual on the ground. I remember, back probably 35, 40 years ago, there was a martial artist on the East Coast that got convicted of molesting and raping a young girl. But there were others in the dojo that made the same statement. And so the guy was coming through an airport, maybe Pennsylvania. It was back when surveillance cameras were horrible, so this was a TV camera crew that was getting the guy coming off the plane and coming down. And he was, "Oh, yeah, remember that one? Very old." And the father of the molested girl walked out of the crowd with a big-ass .357 and channeled it point-blank range. Okay? That's what we're talking about here. If you know you're failing to anticipate that situation, there were so many points for intervention, and that was a highly classically trained martial artist that could kick a lot of ass. But in that situation, on that time, in that day, guess what? The balance, the seesaw, was against him. So don't put all your eggs in one basket. What you need to do is you need to think, "What are the three to five things that I could do today to make my life well and more fun?"

And places. It's the one to five things, I would say, meaning, what's the one thing I can get really, really good at that I can use all the time? And it's like we don't... we're not making fun of the different shooting courses. Today's an example: we've got CQB, and then, "Oh, this is vehicle CQB! Oh, this is this C..." It's like, "Well, wait a minute, if the basic principles of what I should learn don't apply in a number of different situations, that's not a good TTP. It's not a good way to do things." And it's like, so I have an interest in how the world works. So in my free time, I read up a lot about nerdy stuff and physics and math, and just topically. Because I don't fully understand this—hilarious—but I try to topically understand a theory at a theoretical level to go, "Okay, how that works?" Right, right?

So the idea is, I could sit here and I could try and learn everything I can about math, and everything I can about physics, and all the different laws, and really deep dive all the stuff. And you could spend your whole life doing that and then really still not learn everything. But if I just go, "Alright, there's this thing called Pi, right? 3.1459." It's a repeating number that has no pattern and never ends. If I look at that and understand its significance in the entire world and universe, it actually, just learning that one concept, makes all of the other stuff easier to understand. And I don't have time to learn everything. And my point is, is exactly what you just said: what's the one, three, five, whatever it is, what are the things I can do in every situation, right, that will help me no matter what it is? And if I get really, really, really good at that, and really good at applying it, well, then I don't need a new TTP. Or a new TTP will become obvious and apparent for use, right? It would become—it'll be inevitable. Yes. And I don't have to think about that. I don't have to put time going, "Right, man, how do we address this?" That answer will... I will arrive at the most logical conclusion because I use this one thing in all of these different areas of my life. And that's it. I just focus on that one thing, and everything else becomes easier. And so, that's kind of what I was trying to get at with all this.

The Heimlich maneuver, okay? There's a procedure, a TTP, that you can learn quickly and easily and have in your back pocket your entire life for that moment that you need it. That's what we're talking about. And what Brian is saying, folks, is that understanding centripetal versus centrifugal force, right? Okay? Is an important consideration. Caliber of the weapon system that you're going to buy is a much less serious consideration. Brian, Guns & Ammo magazine has been around for so long because all they do is argue calibers: ".308 too much for the mule deer," whatever, right? And every week it's something else. So I've got a blunderbuss that I feel... Yeah, okay, that's all great, but what's more important? Understanding terminal ballistics. Yeah. Do you get what I'm trying to say? I mean, and what do I need to know about terminal ballistics? "Wow, if I get shot here, I better stick my thumb in there right quick so I don't leak out!" That's what I'm talking about with that psychological and cognitive triage that we have to apply to a situation. "Is it better now? Did I just walk in on this holy crap? Has this been going on for a while? And now I'm another potential victim?" Those are the type of situations that you've got to run. And if you do that, you'll be smarter and harder to kill.

And that is—that's a mental tool rather than a physical tool. Now, are we counting out physical tools? No. Because every single place that I go, we go in and we buy a, or rent, a box cutter or a knife for the week that we're there, because it's easy.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Leave it to somebody and give them, "And hey, congratulations, you're our best student!" And they're still thinking that that was a special night. I don't understand that. We just need that son of a gun. Sometimes we steal it too. We don't have to pay for it. It's really crappy Walmarts we do.

No, no. And then you kind of said it. It's a cognitive tool versus a physical one. It's a thought pattern versus a tactic, technical procedure. And if I focus on those, it's, "Where can I use this?" And "How can I use this thing in every situation?" It makes it easier, and I get better at it because I use it more often, right? The geometry of fires or geometry of thought, whatever it is. I use that with my family all the time. I go, "What about from this angle? What about here? Did we cover all of our communication? How are we doing that?" So it's not just operationally, it's just with the family.

I mean, it's really—there's an amazing story about geometry of fires, Brian, and it dates back a long, long time, and it'll separate some of the people in the audience right now that didn't know a factoid. So we were given the choice on where Urban Hunter, which turned into Combat Hunter, should reside. And the choice was made by the Marine Corps, not by the subject matter experts, that the best place to put it would be the SOI (School of Infantry) on the East and West Coast. That way they would be the retainer of the information. Well, no one—Mattis—during those times, and Mattis was an integral part of standing this program up and seeing it pushed viciously and aggressively into the Marine Corps, was Mattis's 5/3/5 that changed many, many times. Well, the three were Guardian Angel, Geometry of Fire, and then Unity of Command, understanding that whoever's in front of you, it's the gosh-darn Corporal. You drive on, follow that person because they're the leader. Well, the Guardian Angel came from us, came from Combat Hunter, and the Geometry of Fires. Why? Because Geometry of Fires made sense in my brain that you wanted 360 with optics, info, your weapon systems, right?

And so we went to the East Coast, and the East Coast guys kept coming up and going, "What's that with Geometry of Fires?" And "Atmospherics is this band of oxygen trapped around the earth?" And I'm like, "Look, I'm a Detroit kid, it's atmospherics: the sights, smells, feels, tastes of an area. And its geometry of fires: 360 from the ground to the roof for all these different things," right? And then they fought and fought. So then we went back to the West Coast, and Mattis goes, "Hey, what do you call that in classical?" "That's Geometry of Fires!" He goes, "That's it!" So that became one of the three in the 5/3/5. So Mattis did that over and over throughout—man, it's like settling arguments by settling scores, right? But he did it by out-thinking people.

Yeah.

And he and his chief of staff, Crusher, would literally crush the wind out of your lungs if you failed to do it. So those type of things became part of that 5/3/5. Brian, why is that 5/3/5 mentality still around? Because, like the Greeks, it was a great idea. Now that Greek guy might not still be around, and we're not using those same letters except on the outside of an academic institution, right? But the principles—that's what we're talking about—the philosophy is as strong and smart as it is today as it was then. And so you could use Mattis's 5/3/5 tomorrow at school and be smarter and safer and harder to kill. But people want to tangentialize their thinking to think that if the application of the tool is sufficient, you don't need to think, you need to react. And that's a fallacy.

Yeah, that's not going to work for the, you know. There's always going to be better tools out there that people are going to build. Or a stronger person. Yeah, or a better fighter. That's consistent.

You know what? I think for that, the 5/3/5 you brought up, that's a throwback to the Marine Corps stuff. We'll do that, I think we can, we'll do that on the Patreon side for those lessons. That's a great idea for people who are the Patreon subscribers. We'll go ahead and cover that on there. So don't forget if you're listening, we have that. So we'll do that. And I think that's, but I think people are kind of seeing the point we're getting at here, is if I don't have those simple thought processes in place to go over everything, no new gun, the new shield, the new non-lethal device, the new technology, the new ChatGPT, isn't going to solve the damn problem or revolutionize the world. Stop looking for that thing and start using this thing because I can use those everywhere. And look everywhere.

So, we use a lot of airplane references because we love the answers and we fly all the time. So the two things that I would say I could categorize that pilots are most afraid of, based on our interviews with them: lithium burns from batteries that are not in the cockpit but where the luggage is stored, because they burn so fast and so hard, and they're really hard to put out even with the systems that they have there, the Halon systems. Second thing is, high-speed tire blowout on landing, which changes the trajectory of the landing. Now, I could go on, but understanding those two things, Brian: where's your battery stored at home? Will, you know, with an alarm system, if it burns while you're up sleeping in bed or down working out in the gym? Yeah, that's a consideration that anybody can be, even in a hotel room, right? And what about on a car? Do your kids know how to change a tire? Do they know where to pull off on the roadway? Do they know what it's going to feel like when one tire goes out and it starts exploding on the roadway, and how you control it, and should you hit the brakes? Brian, those are skills that transcend everything. And if you take a few minutes a week on those, you'll be harder, faster, stronger.

You know, real quick at the end, a funny one I did with the Insurgent on January 1st, on New Year's Day. So I was kept talking, I was like, "Oh, we got a lot going on on New Year's Day, we got like one..." And so, fine. It's like, when it happened, when it was New Year's Day, it's like, "What is it?" I go, "Oh, today's the day you change all the batteries in your smoke detectors!" Right? And she's looking at me like, "You're an idiot!" So I want to get her involved. I was like, "Look, what you do is, on the first of every year, you do these things that you only do once a year." And it's very simple, you can get a list. So what I had her do is, we took the couches—we have like three cushions on it, three big cushions. I go, "Well, it's the first year, so we want to rotate those cushions because we consistently sit in the same spot, we don't want to be like, 'Oh.'" Okay? So now she starts doing that. I got her going on there, so she's all excited because she loves decorating, doing all that stuff. So she's switching all the pillows on the couch. I go, "Now we have to remember, we start from here, we go this way, and we do that same thing every single year so that it consistently rotates." Like, "Oh, that makes sense!" And now she's got the little steps to allow to help me get up to the smoke detector to change that stuff up. So it's hilarious, but like, those simple things. Now that's it though, kind of just implanted in her head. The first of the year, I talked up January 1st so much, she probably thought that she was going to get like a gift or something.

Exactly. And now she's going, "It's another one of these Insurgent training events!" "But I hate my dad!" She'll never forget it, right? So she'll always know January 1st to change the couch cushions and replace all the batteries in the smoke detector.

You know what I mean?

Every family member in my family—meaning Shelley's family, because my family are demented rat stranglers—they would call being sent to Colorado for Shelley training. It was called Cowboy Boot Camp. He still talks about Uncle Shelley. And I mean, no, no, it was Uncle Shelley because we joked so much when they were kids that it was Uncle Philly and Aunt Greg, "We have to go out to Colorado!" And that's called the Cowboy Boot Camp. They want to go there. So yeah. And so, but listen, thank God we all have kids that are not skulking and lurking around and doing horrible things.

Apparently your family are rats. We don't want to even talk about that.

That's a new price, Brian. I love both of my brothers, but they're great. They're both insane, and both of them. And so they're turning around saying the same thing to their friends, exactly to them, but not about their Uncle Greg.

Oh, of course, no. Hey, I love your Patreon idea. Let's do that. And then a real quick question, I know we're traveling again. What about part two on Clark Dever?

Really?

Yeah, we're going to get to Clark, schedule with him. I want to get another one of our normal episodes in between there, because I want to get some feedback from folks. So if you listened to the Clark, Clark Dever, Greg, if you listened to that episode, I said it wrong too. I totally, I don't even know how I did that because I knew it was Dever. And so, but anyway, he could say whatever it is, but then he's got to change his spelling. He's got to put D-E-H-V-E-H-R with the little sway on it. So I love Clark, I'm sorry Clark, he's great. But if folks, if you had questions about that one or interested, we want to cover a bunch more. And we had a bunch of things we wanted to cover with him, and then as a kind of conversation went, I was like, "Crap, we should have done like one or two of these because you can really deep dive it." But that was a great one. So, and everyone listening right now, we really appreciate it. Please share the podcast with your friends. We've got a lot coming up this year in terms of stuff that we're going to be putting out, so you've got to stay tuned. Stay signed up at the Arcadia Cognorati website. Again, follow us on Patreon. If you're going to be on Patreon, you get the first go at everything we have going on this year. It's going to go out to you folks who are on there, and get some discounts for some things we have coming up if you're interested. So definitely, it's only a couple bucks a month, and we put out a bunch of stuff on there. And when you write in and ask questions, we will just record it and answer it right on there for you, and let all the Patreon subscribers get it. So if it's something you're not concerned or a little confused about, or want some more information on, hop on there, shoot me a message, and we'll get to it. So, anything else to add in, Greg, before we—

That Brian's going to be giving away random crap from his background, his office?

Oh, that's a good one.

All year long. I've got the Hoberman sphere. Can you see—you can't see the Hoberman sphere. It's on the top shelf, it's the one right below it, right? That's there. That's for people that are zooming in right now to see that. Yeah, that's great! But Brian will be auctioning off that painting back there too. So yeah, that's my Chicago painting.

I know it's lovely.

Yeah, I love it! Anyway, all right. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in. Don't forget that training changes behavior.