L.O.G. 173 The Illusion of Choice

Okay, I think we're just going to do the shotgun start since we're recording. Your mullet is freaking, your salad is just flowing. Yeah, it is. It's getting there. The wife is getting angrier and angrier the longer it gets. She gets—

Your hair is prettier than hers.

No, I can't. Oh my God. And I can put it in my mouth and play with it! Hey, when am I going to see you on the freaking Troy Polamalu and Patrick Mahomes commercial with Head and Shoulders? I'm all for it. So great. We might be, we won't mention on this, but we might be working, doing some work, helping this company that one of our friends is getting started. But it's a company that this woman started, a business where she sends women for a braiding business to send to the house, right? Yeah, and it's like a national thing. So it's called like Babes and Braids or something like that. But it's a really cool concept. But then Greg just came up with us like, "Hey, how about we get her on the podcast, but we have one of them come over to your place and braid your hair while we record a podcast?"

Okay, so first of all, do it live. Second of all, there's always danger, which means people tune in because the danger now is that Brian's chest hair is going to mingle with his hair on his head. He may never be able to leave the house, so God only knows. But "Braid Babes," I think it's great.

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's just an incredible—

Yeah, and then Brian ruined my idea by saying, "Well, I don't know if they're in California." It's like, "Damn it, Brian, you know."

It's okay. He's giving me obstacles constantly on the East Coast. But otherwise, that'd be perfect. Just in here, just braid my hair while we talk to them. Can they braid your mullet into your back hair? Would that be—?

Oh, they'd certainly try. I mean—

Exactly. But he's got ample back hair.

We'll get him. Back hair is long enough. The armpit hair could get braided too, so that's amazing. Well, good morning, gentlemen. Welcome.

Morning. Welcome to the show again, to returning guests. Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute though. You guys are the number one returning guest of the show. But I want to make sure, first of all, thanks for your service. But second of all, understand that that's because none of our other guests answer us after they've been on the show. So you guys, by default, have been on the show more, not that you are very popular any of the times that you're on the show. I just, let's be cranking on it. If you keep showing up, knocking on my door, Greg, I'm eventually going to answer.

Yeah, well, that's it. And in all transparency, Andy, you've answered as much as John and both of you. Keith, except for John, now has a message, "Hey, I'm meditating, you know." Take a knee auto-reply. He is money. His email is kind of like an electric car. Once it gets cold, that [__] ain't going to work. So yeah, I'm sure you start looking around for that charging station now. You know what I'm saying?

(Music)

Have you seen Greg's name? Look at Greg's name! One of Reese's Pieces? Yes! That's awesome. I missed that. And I mean that in a good way. I don't mean that in, you know, how we met way. That is awesome. I love it, man. That's how we call my kids. So I'm one of your— I'm one of your children though. I'm just like, you know, I'm just one of your many Padawans. Do you have Rick?

That's wonderful. Thank you for that.

Thank you. You know, my ego needs stroking.

Yeah, just like—

Yeah, just like Marren's hair needs combing. Yeah, it needs to be brushed out every once in a while. Well, we appreciate you guys coming back on. Great guests to have on, because we like talking to folks like you because you're practitioners of what you do. Meaning you're not just talking about it, as they say, you are being about it. So Andy, you do a lot of mental performance, sports psychology stuff, so human behavior, human performance work with all kinds of different folks, including Major League Baseball organizations. John, you're taking this mindfulness that you started a while back since you got out of the Navy a few years ago, and you've been running with it, and you're all over with it, and you're constantly pushing it. And I love it because you're just, you're living it and you're showing, "This is how we do it. This is what I do." So I've learned a great deal from both of you. And then so I've guilted you by crying and begging to come onto my show because you guys are in a much higher class than Greg and I are.

It costs us a donation and two T-shirts. Yes. And I've already given the T-shirts to my kids, my son and my daughter-in-law, so don't tell Marren. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Because he's going to be looking in the mail for that damn T-shirt. So, nope.

We want pictures of the shirts once that once told us.

Absolutely. Tell them when I opened up the package, the greatest thing was that I set them side by side and I said, "Now, how do I decide who gets which one?" And just so you know, one of you got a larger donation than the other, but I'm not going to say anything because I don't get my ass kicked. Look how massive, massive check. Brian now has been a little aggressive, if we know, during in the training, so I don't want him showing up and just going off on a cage match. So, but I will, I'll send you those photos because the kids love the shirts and they love the backstory. Like Brian was saying, you got to really dig in, folks, to Andy and John and see what they're all about. And you guys, I tell you, daily LinkedIn is my only link with the outside world. I live in this church, you know, zombie apocalypse shed. And so I go on LinkedIn every day and I just can't wait to see what you guys are doing. And Andy, you're over the top with the hippo. It's the greatest thing in the world. Just so you know, I don't know where you're getting all that feed, but it's magic. You have actually the best social media experience because you have only that and then I curate like the best memes from throughout the week that I see, which I think are real nice. It took me the longest time asking Brian, "Did this really happen?" And Brian goes, "No, it's a meme." I go, "Yeah, but what's a meme?" And he goes, "Oh, it's not real, it's a joke." So we have that talk every Wednesday. So I curate the best content from the internet to say and you. So you guys should just jump in it. You guys have this challenge going on and you're doing this half triathlon and you guys are doing all this crap talking back and forth, which I love. Now, there's a purpose behind any reason, but kind of one of the things in which you guys are always talking about, and people say, are things like, "Hey, let's get comfortable being uncomfortable. Hey, you got to put yourself out there. You got to throw yourself in situations." And of course, I believe that too. I'm uncomfortable every time I leave my house, but figure out and you should be in the world. But the idea is, I've always said, and Andy, we kind of had a brief discussion about this on one of our phone calls not long ago, where I said, like, you can kind of train yourself to think and act that way, in a sense, meaning to look at things as a challenge and be comfortable accepting whatever challenge that is. Sometimes it's the challenge of getting through the crap that you have to get done for the day. Sometimes it's getting through the challenge of something that you guys are doing, this half triathlon event, or putting yourself out there. So I kind of wanted to somewhat try to center the discussion around that as sort of our anchor point, but we can let it go wherever it needs to go. So why don't you kind of tell everyone, either one of you guys can go first, about this challenge that you have going on?

You want me to start, John?

Yeah, I'll let you start, man. It's your brainchild, so go for it, man.

Yeah, it's both, both brain cells fired into the session at one point. Two of them. Exactly. They're a good idea. A ferret gets out once in a while. You would be an officer if you weren't a good idea fairy, right? So our good friend Jason Van Camp— Jason's one of my best friends, you know, we went to West Point together, played football together. We were artillery officers. He became a Green Beret, a special four-star officer in the Army, and was medically retired. And then he started Warrior Rising because he wanted to help veterans start their own businesses. And he realized when he was starting this company, Mission Six Zero, which John and I have been affiliated with over the years, you know, there's got to be a better way to support veterans. Not only to help them get all the support they need in terms of resources, advisory work, but like help infuse some capital. I mean, that's the number one thing entrepreneurs need. And so Warrior Rising, great non-profit, been really successful, been around for almost a decade now. And so Jason and I hadn't talked during the pandemic, like a lot of people. We finally got together at Rice University. At the time I was at Texas A&M, and we had a big Veterans Business Battle, where it's like a Shark Tank event, where veterans pitched their ideas. And they're veterans from all over the country. We call them 'Veteranpreneurs,' which is a great tagline. And so Jason was the keynote speaker, and we got a chance to hang out and have dinner. And I had been trying to establish my network of people who really want to support veteran businesses here in Texas, and we wanted to leverage that base and do some more fundraisers. And so we just started kind of going at it. And you get Jason and I in a room, and then it's dangerous a little bit too. So we said this idea, like, "Hey, why don't we just do this, this challenge?" And I told him, "Hey, one thing I've always wanted to do, I've always wanted to do a triathlon and specifically like an Ironman." It was something that was kind of a big, hairy, audacious goal for the Stephen Covey fans out there. And so I've always been goal-oriented. I always want to do hard things as part of my philosophy, I noticed with John's. And so we said, "Hey, why don't we get you and John?" Kind of got this fun Army-Navy banter thing because we wanted to do it in conjunction with the Army-Navy game, because Jason gets a box every year, he gets a suite. He has a big challenge over here associated with every Navy game that culminates kind of the end of the year. So let's— We want to do something on those lines. I said, "Well, you know, we've got, I got an Ironman here. There's a great triathlon community in my backyard here off Lake Conroe, north of Houston." And we said, "Hey, why don't we just do an Ironman Triathlon?" And I said, "Well, I'm not anywhere near close to being ready to do a full Ironman, so why don't we do a half?" And I said, "Well, who can we do it with?" And I really thought of John because John and I—

Bad ideas.

Yeah, I really thought of John. I'm like, "Hey, why don't I get somebody who's going to kick my ass?" So like, "Hey, you know, I want to— why don't I just like challenge a Navy SEAL? Why not?" Like, "Why don't I talk on Superman's cape?" So, but no, John and I have actually had a lot of friendly Army-Navy banter over the last couple years since we've known each other. So we wanted to really take advantage of that and obviously, he's got a really strong social media presence. We're both connected on the mental fitness space. So it's— So I immediately reached out to John and he, true John fashion, said, "Yes, I'm all in." And then hopefully he asked his wife first, but because he's, hopefully she said yes, and then he got the green light and got a kitchen pass for October 16th.

And then she doesn't know yet, but that's probably— she's the one person if it gets closer. Yeah, I'll tell her October 4th.

She's going to leave hints. Yeah. And then why Ironman? It's Warrior Rising has a good partnership with Ironman in their series. Okay. Yeah. And so Waco just made a lot of sense in terms of the dates wise. And so yeah, here we go, 70.3 miles. And so we're, we're getting after it too. So I think, I think John was at start off in much better shape than I was all the way around. But the other reason I was like, you know, like a lot of veterans, I just kind of fell off the wagon physically and mentally, you know, since I retired. I've changed jobs a couple times and turned around. I look at myself in the mirror. I'm like, "I weigh 260 pounds. What the hell happened to me?" And I've always been a big dude. I'm like, so you— the most veterans lose, gain about 15 pounds. I decided to double that. Yeah. And so I was like, "Man, I need something to really get me going to get back to being myself." And so I personally, it's part of my journey. But I want to inspire the veterans to go do hard things, get out of their comfort zone. I think John's a great example of that. And not just how to train your body, but how to train your brain. And John and I both, so we're trying to— that holistic fitness, especially being mental fitness, mental fitness, how do you do that deliberately and intentionally? That's in a way that's going to help you do hard things consistently as you go through these life inflection points, which transition is not just something you do once when you know military, you do it over and over again.

Over and over. Exactly. That's the thing. And so, you bring up a good point, and I'll throw to you, John, here in a second. But I'll kind of keep it specific on that, as you talk about, "Hey man, now I got to get back in shape." Like, you know, you slid right in there at the beginning when we didn't notice, like, "Yeah, I went to West Point. I played football there." So, I love how that's the first thing out of your mouth, of course. But then you're talking about like getting back in shape and stuff. And so you look at like, okay, you're a soft guy. You were in the military forever. And like, John, you were a SEAL, same thing. You're in the Navy for a long time. Like, it's built into what you do. It can't be that hard. And I'm always the one, because I'm the same way as that, because I've always traveled and always had to go to places first, and never in one place too long. Like, staying consistent is actually really difficult to do if you don't build it in. And then what happens slowly over time, I've had it too. Like yesterday I was stretching on one of our calls and Greg's like, "What's going on?" I was like, "I had to get back on a real workout program and it's kicking my ass right now." I was being a [__] and just going, "Yeah, I was working out, but like not really working out."

You don't see a lot of hunchbacks, and Brian was a hunchback yesterday, and he was all gnarled, you know? Like, "Ah, dude." He's like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "Oh, the hips are a little tight. Did a lot of squatting yesterday." But, okay, I'll kind of throw that back to you, John, is like, same thing as like, you know, your stud, your SEAL. And then you had to hit a point where you're like, "Dude, I'm in here talking about mental health and resilience and I'm [__] fat." You know what I mean? Like, I can't do that. So I'll throw it to you to that. But like, that's harder than people think because it happens slowly over time.

Yeah, well, it does happen slowly over time, but that slowly over time is faster than we think it is, man. Like, time, you blink and you're suddenly in a place that you never thought you would be. And I'm like Andy, man, in special operations and in the military in general, you've got this tribe that you kind of have to stay in some semblance of physical fitness. And within special operations, it's a higher level, and we're always challenging one another, so it's pretty easy to stay motivated. Then you get out and that tribe's kind of gone and they're doing their own thing. And you're like, "Well, okay, who am I supposed to work out with? What's my workout routine? When am I supposed to go to the doctor and get my teeth checked?" You know, the [__] that the military— "Oh, I'm supposed to take care of that. Oh, I have to put clothes on. Oh, okay, right." All this, all this stuff. Like, we tell ourselves that the military life is hard, and there's definitely aspects of it that are hard, but there are some pieces where our hands are being held for the whole time: five years, 20 years, 30 years. And then you're like, "Oh, man, I've, I've literally got to keep track of all this stuff myself anyway." One of those things is physical fitness. And when you, when you get out and you get into the entrepreneurial world, the entrepreneur's side of things, there's a constant grind. And then, you know, I'm a dad of three. This is another thing you want to talk to your wife about by October, I'm just saying. We haven't leaked that one too.

Breaking news on this podcast. Exactly.

Knew that. He doesn't know about it. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, who knows. But yeah, so three young kids, all under five— that's where the five comes from, and or at five and under, rather. And that, you know, the business professional life gets you and then the personal life gets you. And then you're like, "Oh, [__], I haven't worked out in four months," you know, whatever. And you, you put on a pound here, a pound there. And because you're so tired, it's really easy to grab a freaking, you know, burger and fries rather than putting in time to make an actual meal with vegetables and a salad and that kind of stuff. So yeah, before you know it, like Andy, or myself, we're both not what we used to be. So I was super excited when Andy and Jason reached out to me because I had honestly been looking for something, but it was hard to find that something. One, and two, hard to find a why behind that something. So Andy reached out to me with multiple reasons, right? Okay, yes, there's something hard to do, which Andy and I both love to find something hard to do. Two, there's a why behind it. Okay, yes, raising money for Warrior Rising and raising money and awareness of Warrior Rising for the veterans that they support. And then three, to kick Andy's ass. I mean, that's beautiful. How can I pass on that?

Well, just so you know, Andy was nice, and John, you haven't sent me anything, just say so. But Andy, he's been nice enough that every once in a while Andy will send me a little reminder, and then a bill. The for the latest one was a copy of Deliberate Discomfort, which makes me very sad because as much as I read and hear about Jason Van Camp, he doesn't answer any of my interrogatories or my phone calls. It was like, "Andy, where's the, you know, where's the dedication to my book?" And it was nothing but a bill inside. He sent me the book with postage due. But it's a great book. It's an incredible book. I think everybody should read it. To prepare for this today, I wasn't sure, is it going to be joking, McJokes A Lot? Is it going to be serious? Because I've cried on the show with you before, mostly after reviewing the show. So yesterday, I went through and I watched parts of Lone Survivor to get ready to talk to McCaskill. And then for Reese, I watched, right, because that was probably the most realistic portrayal of a US Army experience. So, but I do want to say that, listen, you guys motivate me all the time. Brian's my central point of motivation when it comes to eating right and losing weight and staying on a good road. It's easy to follow a good mentor, but it's not easy to stay sane, stay in shape, and to walk your talk. How do you guys find the strength to walk your talk and remain that role model that you both are?

Yeah, so there have definitely been times when I haven't walked that talk, and I feel it. Like, I go up on stage or I get on a call with someone to present to a group, and they ask me a question, like, "Hey, what's your, what's your workout routine? Or what's this routine? What are you eating?" And I'm like, "Uh, I'm taking a break. I have five kids." Exactly. So so that, there's, there's that pressure, and it's, right, it's, it's, it's almost embarrassing, quite honestly, when you get asked a question like that and you, and you're not walking your talk. So there's that, there's that social pressure to actually do it. But then, there's also the, the benefits that you get from walking your talk, right? Yes, it's much easier to present. Like, you're more confident, even if they don't ask you any questions, you're more confident when you're walking that talk. Like, if you get up in front of a group and you talk about doing hard things, about getting into that deliberate discomfort, about meditating, about whatever. If you're doing it, it's much easier to talk confidently about it. And so that I found has, has motivated me to actually walk my talk and not just be a bag of wind.

No, no, it doesn't. Look at Andy, when you said that you stared right at Reese when you said that.

Andy's below me on my— my video froze. I don't know.

So that's like, you know, and that's a good thing to bring up. But I look at it, it was like, you know, they're like that the link between physical and mental health, it's a feedback loop, right? So when you start working out more, you start feeling better. Your mental health gets better, therefore you start working out more. Like, it's, it's that nice positive feedback loop. But it could be negative when you're going the opposite direction. When you're like, "Uh, I haven't worked out in a while and now I don't feel good." And just like you can spiral down or spiral up quickly, and you don't even realize that it's happening sometimes. And that, that's, that's my hardest thing too, because you always look back like, "Man, these people just throw this weight around like it was nothing." And now like, "God, I got to warm up and I got to do this." And you talk about accountability is a big thing, which is why I love you, you guys are doing this thing together. Because you talk about being in the tribe and being in the military. Like, someone's holding you accountable at all times. It's probably just your buddies or you're just, whatever it is. Or you have a standard that you have to meet, of course. But you know, you have guys are going to talk crap, they're going to say this, they're going to, yeah, you guys are like, "Hey, dude, what, what's a," you know, someone's looking at each other and you're like, "Dude, I know like four fat people and all of them are you." And it's— Oh man.

Okay, we are back to the fat shaming, Aaron. And that's, that's good. But so, I want to throw that, throw it to Andy. But like, that, that accountability, like, how do you, how do you do it for yourself?

That's a great question. I mean, and just, I mean, I think John's talking about the integrity piece, like the connection between what you talk about and what you do. And this one is more like setting the conditions for discipline. And I think that's one of the misnomers I've noticed as I've started to take some time getting into the civilian world is like, "Hey, how do people see us like as veterans, especially guys like John and I who've spent a career in the military?" And they have all these expectations, right? And there's one of the expectations I've been finding is like, "Oh, that you're disciplined," right? And that you're a leader, right? And I think as I reflect back on it, it's like, it's not about, it's setting the conditions for discipline to occur. And then I think the accountability is a huge aspect of it that kind of is an inside out process. And it's not discipline or motivation, it's actually both working together. Contrary to some other Navy SEALs that hang out with John and associate with them, say is that motivation and discipline are somehow diametrically opposed. And that's not true. And that kills me when we say that, because they actually are. They're, they have like a symbiotic relationship. And so that's my, that's my 75-word for the day for you, Greg. I just wrote it down, if you noticed.

Yeah, I got that from Venom. I watched, I just watched Venom with my kids. So "symbiot" that was like on my mind.

John's a big fan of the Freudian slips. I kind of do them on purpose. But long story short is that, you know, for me, it's John and I. And I knew that John was kind of looking for something like I was. John, I've been through this, you know, collective hardship. We both graduated from the military academy the same time. We both positioned at the same time. We were in the space together. We're both trying to figure a lot of things out, trying to be a world-class—

Yeah, it sounds like a, this sounds like a rom-com path waiting to happen.

Is that, it's a bromance. We're actually, we're actually like Huff and Dough, back. We're kind of Prestige Worldwide. We're going to get, that's the next T-shirt. It's Prestige Worldwide. Yeah, we're going to go sail away. But yeah, it's for me, just having an accountability partner on the social side is really important. Like, I know John and I, I wake up every day and I was almost like pseudo-obsessed with it. And I know John is looking at the numbers too. Like, he because he's a numbers guy, right? Less of a numbers guy than John. But he's, and we're going back and forth on text and we're pushing each other. And to me, that's so the setting the conditions for discipline. And then the competition side is super important too, because I think competition in today's society is also has a bad name. Like it's the, everyone gets the trophy type thing. And a competition is somehow a bad thing. But like, when you look at this art and science of competitions, it's about the process of trying to make yourself better, mentally, physically, socially, spiritually, so you can better influence and lead other people. And I think that that's what we're trying to talk about is we're competing, and not only against each other, we're competing for a common cause. And I think that's super important, when it comes to accountability. But you got to hold yourself accountable. And the last thing I'll say is just the illusion of choice. And I think a lot of our the way we think is we think about we have all these choices, but if you really want to get where you want to go, you don't have that many choices. And what I had to decide was about what are my decisions that I'm making intentionally and deliberately, and more importantly, not what I'm doing, but what am I not doing? And I think that's important too. You know, in terms like he said, like, "What am I eating this versus that?" And there was a lot of awareness that I, with the thanks, thanks to our sponsors like Excella, who've, you know, just looking at like my gut health. Like, first of all, my, my gut microbiome is like kind of, it's like its own universe system. I got a large gut. But, you know, and it's, but just like, it's huge, look at that thing, it's got its own solar system. But like this, I mean, that's an example. Like, I had no idea, you know. I've heard about gut health stuff and, yeah, whatever. But just like taking a deep dive on that, I mean, it's just not as easy as like calories in, calories out, especially when you get older. There's a lot that's going on beneath the surface, especially when you got a lot of mileage, bashing, weight bashing on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're terrible. We're terrible, man. Oh, no. But listen, Andy, what, what you're on, or the age, you bastard. What you're on though, is a very important thing. Between you and John, competition is okay. Competition can be helpful and healthy. It doesn't have to be bully. It doesn't have to be degrading. The other thing is, you guys are both transparent. LinkedIn is a horrible media to communicate with, because most people that will read your post, read it for what's given, and go, "This is great. I'm going to donate to this," or give it a thumbs up. Other people have no idea what LinkedIn is. So no matter what you write, they're going to write, "That's close to my life story." And then they're going to put eight paragraphs of their [] on there, dance, or yours, and just clouds the issue. But Andy, you're no stranger to losing. And what's really good too, is you got to model behavior for losing, and I don't mean losing weight. I mean making mistakes. Look, we all, we all fall off the wagon sometimes. We all make mistakes. We all have scar tissue, and being able to get back up and dust yourself off and get back in the ring, that's [] key. And that's what drives me crazy is a lot of people think that, listen, they look at you and they go, "Well, I could never go to West Point. And I could never be on a football team. I could never put up with the light foam lattes that the SEALs drink. I could never do all the frou-frou, finger-up [] that those guys get handed to them every day with all the best gear." And so what they do is they think they can't do this in their own community, or they can't do this with for themselves. You guys came up with an idea, you launched it. People dove in because they knew it was a good idea and got behind you. I just want to use this for the folks that, that the seven people that listen to our broadcast and the three that see it on YouTube, that they know that they could start this in their own community. They could get behind something good. They could start internally fixing the things that are broke on themselves. I think what we've done is we've become so apathetic over time because we model crappy behavior. And you guys are good examples. I meant that when I said there's three superheroes on the call, and one apparently John Candy impersonator. But the idea is that you can all get something done. And you're doing it every day. I'm proud because every time I tune into either of your site, you're giving me insight. John, just a few days ago, somebody said, "So this is all for just men?" And you're like, "No, clearly our focus is for men, but this is for everybody." You get what I'm saying? How, how shallow people have become where they don't scratch beneath the veneer here and see what you guys are trying to do here. So I know that was a long way around the tent somewhere and there's a [] question. Just got to be honest, focus on, I want to focus on the fact that Andy is used to losing. So let's go there. Let's start. I mean, look at him. Okay, look at him. There's no question. He's already got the death set on his shirt. That's what do you call that? That's your crash and burn shirt. You wear it so you're never disappointed wherever you end up.

Actually, the official Army football symbol right here. That's what this is. It's going crazy. Perfect, baby. That's right. But thank you. I'm very proud of my failure resume. Thank you for that.

I will say Andy posted something a couple months ago, maybe a month ago, where he said, "Hey, if, if you shut the door in my face," something to this effect, "if you shut the door in my face, I'm going to come back and buy the building." And I [__] love that. I love it.

Exactly. Exactly. There's always a window, there's always a skylight, there's always a second chance. And, you know, when we talk about a soldier suicide or veterans having a hard way out, I, I, I almost got arrested because there was a guy panhandling in town, and, you know, Gunnison, there's nine of us, so we all know each other. So this guy stuck out. And it was, "Hey, veteran," and I did the the stolen valor thing, "Hey, if you're a veteran, Grand Junction has one of the greatest veteran programs. Crested Butte, they'll be there on Thursday. I'll drive you up." And it was all []. And I, I lost my mind. My, my idea is like, listen, those of us that said yes, those of us that said we'd protect the US and the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, we're a small crew, we got to stick together. But the other thing is, so we got demons just like everybody else. And those demons are just like Andy's fireflies, taking notes behind us constantly and writing down secret []. But we have to address them. And what you guys have done is instead of saying, "I'm going to sit there and [__] about how hard it is," you said, "Hey, here's a strategy, here's a way out, here's a hand up." And I got to tell you, I love that. It's, it's hugely inspirational.

Yeah, so so on that, and Andy, in your mistakes— no, but John, I do kind of want to get into a little bit about what you talk about with mindfulness and you have the "Men Talking Mindfulness," and what you, what you practice and what you preach, because it's, it's really cool. It's kind of just having that stuff out there. You know, we've kind of discussed this before when you're on the podcast a while back, that like, it's hard for me to do a lot of different stuff, especially when it comes to meditation or breathing. But like, if I do breathing exercises, especially if I'm doing like, about like, one warming up for a workout and I do the 90-90 breathing and I focus on that, like, that's sort of my version of it. But you're all in on the, the men talking mindfulness, which I love. And of course, someone says, "Oh, it's only for men." It's like, "Well, maybe they needed it a little bit more." So, so yeah, it's for everyone, but this is who I'm focusing on. They're right like an [__]. But, but tell us a little bit about like, how that's helped you for this specific situation, getting back into the grind, getting back, jumping right back into the competition. You know what I mean? Because it's tough. I mean, I know back in the day, probably, you know, when you're a young SEAL, doing a half tri, a half triathlon, you'd be like, "All right, like, that's what cool. I'll, yeah, I'll go practice on the bike for a couple days and then I'll be good." You know what I mean?

Yeah, no kidding. No kidding aside, man, I, I did a half Ironman with about a week training back in the day. And, you know, that was, that was a lifetime ago. But yeah, so now I have to put in a lot more effort. But yeah, the, I think where the mindfulness and the meditation stuff comes into play here, there's a lot of it. One is doing away with the all-or-nothing mentality. You know, with the breathing that you're doing, Brian, that's something, right? You're doing something. When I talk to people about meditation, they're like, "Oh, so I have to meditate for an hour a day?" No, you don't. If, if you can start with, you know, two minutes of breathing in the morning, maybe work some breath work throughout your day, just or just focusing on what it is you're doing in the here and now. That's the mindfulness side, right? Yes. That's something. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. And that comes back to why we are where we're at right now, where me and Andy are, because we've been an all-or-nothing kind of mentality the whole time we've been in the military, right? "Hey, I'm going to crush, you know, an hour-long workout. I'm going to go do this, this, this, and I have to do all of it." Well, if I'm only able to do 10 minutes of working out, then I'm not going to do it. And because I didn't work out, well now I'm going to go eat a burger and fries and pizza and ice cream, you know, all that. So it's, it's all or nothing. Well, it's not. You know, there's day, there's days where I, I log on to Strava and I see Andy's, you know, getting after it with a walk. You know, and I know that that sounds crazy, like getting after it with a walk.

Marching myself to victory. There you go.

Yeah, hey, you know what? He's doing something, right? Right? I, I see that and I'm like, "Oh, [__]." Well, I don't have time for an hour-long run today. Well, I'm going to, I'm going to do some stretching. I'm going to do some, something to help me that's going to help me get further along towards my goal. So I think that's a big piece in how the mindfulness and meditation has changed my mentality to working out, towards working out. The other thing is, when you're on that bike, when you're on, you know, a long swim, I mean, you don't have a TV in front of you, right? You have to be focused on something. So you, you kind of tune out all the noise and I focus on the road. I focus on the, on the line on the road, or I focus on the line at the bottom of the pool and just be, be there, be present in that moment and tune everything else out. And it's been awesome. So I think those are the way that they're all tied together.

No, that, that's, that's a big, you know, it's a huge advantage once you kind of learn that, that perspective and taking that. You know, I do the same thing with me. It's like, you know what, I had to get back on this and get serious about working out and everything. So it's just all I have in there and I get the little garage gym going and it's just I throw on music, I don't touch my phone, and I have a timer going so I know how long I've been in there and I write it up on the whiteboard. And that's it. It's me in the moment right then and there. And, you know, that's what a lot of takeaway stuff I got for, for the, you know, about mindfulness and not just the breathing, but the actual mindfulness is being, you know, deliberate with everything and being mindful. So I use that. You know, I got the girls at home, I got, you know, my wife, I got the ten-year-old insurgent, even the dog is a girl. So I can't come off a phone call with me and Greg bitching about something that just happened that we're pissed about and then go in there and have a conversation. I have to stop and like, got the little one pounding on the door, be like, "Hey, can I, can I ask you something real quick?" And I'm like, "What's it?" So, but taking that breath and just focusing, being mindful, "Okay, I'm going to be present with you right now here in this conversation," has just changed the dynamic so much. I mean, it's just, it's huge because it makes everything so much easier. And then transferring that over to like you said, during the workout, man, sometimes that's the hardest part. You're on a long run or and you're just, or, or a swim. So you've got no hat, you're not listening to music, there's nothing. You do, you're just, it's just you by yourself. And a lot of people like can't handle that. You know what I mean? They freak out. I don't know, does, what do you do for that, Andy? Or what's your go-to thing when you're, when you're in that, that open water, just plopping around, you got your floaties on, your arms are scared?

Yeah, I, I try to make sure there's no small children or neighbors around that see me with my shirt off in the open water. I don't want to scare anybody off or get any reports of rabid hippos flailing around. No, I mean, exactly what John's saying. I mean, that's part of the education, the edutainment, I guess, what we're trying to get after too, is like, "Hey, human brains, we're really advanced, right? We're able to reflect on the past and assess ourselves. We're able to project in the future. But we perform best in the present moment." And I think when you're going out and doing something, you know, getting into that present moment focus is super important. For me, it was just to back up a little bit too. It was understanding, I think getting ready for a Half Ironman Triathlon and getting ready to start my business, we're kind of really went hand in hand. And I treated it like a four-phase operation, right? Because, you know, you got to plan, you got to prepare, you got to execute, and you got to assess. And then that's not only like from a large, long-term planning thing, that's also the little micro-loops that happen throughout the course of your day, right? So just, you know, when you wake up and set your intentions for the day. I've got a game plan in terms of that, that actually John shared with me, you know, that we started together because it was like, "Hey, I've never, I've never done a Half Ironman. I've never done a triathlon before." And so, you know, John and I, a little secret out there too, we're actually supporting each other, believe it or not, behind the scenes. So sharing the resources. And so working together, "Hey, what is my plan now? How am I going to prepare each and every single day?" And I think another big thing that I, you know, I joke around with John that, you know, we're, we have like, we treated our bodies like rental cars for so many years.

Yeah.

I think a lot of veterans can associate with that. Or you only former athletes, people who had physically demanding jobs, rather, on their feet all day or whatever. And I think you, you don't think about the toll that it takes and the pounding and, you know, jumping on airplanes and getting into explosions and gunfire and all those things and that it adds up. And then you inventory that at the end of the day and you realize, "Man, I can't treat my body like a rental car and I can't treat my mind like a rental car anymore. I got to treat it like a classic car." Like I got to really— So like a big thing for me is my focus on recovery. And like I said, really dialing in my sleep, which is first and foremost. That's the foundation. I have sleep apnea. So, you know, I look like, you know, I look like Bane with my mask on, which John, I'm going to do a spot with that, with my baby. Please. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then, you know, John's, John, John meanwhile, he's like, he's like, he hovers over his bed and his 100 pillow he got from Brandi Chastain. You know.

Yeah, yeah, he's sitting there just like filled with unicorn hairs. Yeah, he's got unicorn hair in it, man. Unicorn hair. Yeah, exactly, right. It's platinum, the platinum edition, Brandy Chastain shirt-off edition of the Phillips. But yeah, and then also, like, we're using other things too. Like, I, I like, my wife thinks I'm crazy. I've got like three therapy guns. I'm using this thing called Kaatsu. Shout out to our boy, Sean Doolittle, who hooked us up with Kaatsu. Like, I didn't know what the hell Blood Flow Restriction Training was. But I, I can't speak for John, but this thing right here— there it is. It's been a freaking game-changer in terms of getting my legs back. And, you know, just doing the other, you know, silly things like, you know, I never done since I played football, I hadn't done really the cold tub thing or icing. And, you know, but all those little things to help you recover. I, I think recovery at this point is almost as important as my, it is my training.

It is. And that, that's a good point that, you know, of course, you don't know until you start getting older and you're like, "Oh, man, my body is like really messed up." You know, that's the funniest thing. Like when I, I had to go years ago, when I had to go see a doctor about my shoulder, and there's like, "All right, you have what's called your labrum is just frayed." And I was like, "Okay, can we fix that?" He's like, "No." He's like, "If you tore your labrum, we could just reattach it." I was like, "Got it. Go out and tear my labrum so you can reattach it." He's like, "No, don't do that. Don't do that." But it was like, "Hey, you have to do this. You have to be mindful." And, you know, all guys especially get like the shoulder, the hip, the knee stuff, right? It's just from, from what you're doing. But, but going into it, as you learn later that, man, if you focus as much on your recovery as you do on your actual training, that's where it's at. Like, you don't have to spend a ton of time if it's really deliberate and very focused. You actually get much, much more efficient. And it's all about rest. And, you know, everyone takes the, the mindset of, "Hey, you know, moderation is for cowards. Anything worth doing is worth overdoing." Right? But it's like, that works. I'm all for that. If you apply it to everything that you do. Did you apply that to your recovery? Did you apply that to eating healthy? Did you apply that to this? You know, because I've done it before too. John, you wrote the example of people like asking you, "Oh, what do you eat or what do you do?" And I'm like, "Oh, I'm on the seafood diet." And they're like, "Oh, you just seafood?" I was like, "No, I see food that I want to eat and I go eat it." Right? That can't be good.

Even Greg is set up for, he's like, he's like, "I approve that message." He's like, "You eat a lot of, you eat a lot of cheeseburgers." I'm like, he does more than any human I've ever seen.

The idea is that he never gets out of the gym either.

Look, I want to go back to something that John said about Andy, and when you said about the walk, I immediately got the mental impression of the Chinese food in a wok, and that now I'm hungry. Okay. So I, I got to tell you that that part of the workout, I'm all for. And hanging around with Brian is a great role model in one way, but he's a horrible role model in another way. So I always try to buy him like, I'll arrive at the airport earlier and I really value his friendship. So I'll try to buy like a fruit smoothie that's just fruit and ice and have it ready because it was 125 degrees in the shade. And Brian shows up and he deigns, "No." And he kind of, you know, gives me the wave, you know, and he has his bottled Fiji water with the gold tint, and []. You know, there's people like us out there that, that like, you notice that Brian, listen to the last five podcasts and then listen to this one. He's lowered his voice an octave because of Andy. I mean, you guys are like that, and that's okay. But you got to remember that there's some people that are watching you guys as role models that just can't keep up. I can't keep up with Brian's workout. I tried. And he knows I try. We're in Colombia. We had one of the nicest gyms that we ever had, and Brian was down at the other end of the gym. It was like three, you know, football fields long. And I'm sitting there just trying not to embarrass myself and fling myself into the [] closet. And Brian was down with the bands and this and that, and he was there before I got there and he was there afterwards. I'd give you guys a tremendous amount of credit. But I want to make sure that you understand, and I know you do, but the people that are watching you understand that the longest journey starts with the first step. They don't have to spend a lot of money. They don't have to invest in a gym membership. They don't have to be at the, you know, peak performance like at least two of the people on the call are. They can actually, you know, the body fat index for Andy, that was for you. They can start small, right? And incrementally change over time, because I'm 60 now. It's harder. You know what I'm saying? It's, it's harder to stand. Yeah. So what do you say to that? What do you say to those guys that are, that are like me that are still trying? Like, I, I sent Brian a picture, I got my assault bike now. So my assault bike starts, I've been on a regiment since Christmas of 2016. Now the new phase starts. I know I'm kicking my own ass. But not everybody has that stick-to-itiveness or or the wherewithal. So, so what do you say to them? What do you say to them that still want to be a competitor?

I tell them, you know, it's all about setting goals. We've talked about that, right? That's one of the reasons that Andy and I are doing this race is we have, we have to have a goal. And, and then a why behind that goal. And then be able to break that large goal down into smaller chunks, right? So we've set a half Ironman as our goal. We're not going and running a half Ironman tomorrow. That's our long-term goal. Well, our goal this week is to, you know, get some running in, get some biking in, get some swimming in, whatever that looks like. And then that's going to advance over time. And by the time we get to race day, it's going to be much more intense than it is today. But like I was running around the lake yesterday and, you know, there's, there's people walking and they're walking slow and I and I'm like, "Hell yeah! Way to be out here!" You know, that's, that's, that's awesome. You're out here. And, you know, some of them are, are larger. Some of them are old. And, you know, Greg, I'm not, I'm not fat shaming or, or age shaming. I'm saying, if you weren't—

If you weren't, you wouldn't have said it. Exactly.

I'm applauding them for being out there, right? Like, they're out there getting after it. And, you know, if getting after it for you is, is sprinting, you know, a bunch of intervals and going uphill or whatever, or if getting after it is getting up and doing a, a walk around the lake, I applaud you. So whatever that looks like for you, but it all, I think, starts with having a goal. You can't just get up and say, "Well, I'm going to walk today," right? Well, that's great. Why? And what's your long-term goal there? If you have that long-term goal, you have the why behind it, and you're able to break that long-term goal down into smaller chunks, you're going to be better at, you're going to have a higher chance of success at actually doing what it is you've set yourself to do.

And there's so much even, you know, there's so much science behind all that. But the idea too is even like, you know, it's simply writing something down, you're that many more times likely to actually accomplish it simply by writing it down on a piece of paper. And, and you know, that's how I do the whiteboard stuff is like, "Well, there it is. I'm not leaving this, this garage until all that stuff has been done."

I literally just got my whiteboard up in my gym, Brian, for that very reason.

Yeah, and it allows that, that focus and those goals. And like you said, that's a small goal. But I'm on a program and I know at the end of this program I will be at a higher level than when I started this program. But all I got to worry about today is getting through this. You know, and I, I think that's, that's important. Because like I know Andy, you brought up the, the motivation and discipline thing earlier on, because like I'm the least like moto guy. I'm just like, "Hey, this is what I do." Like, "Why?" I'm like, "Well, I started playing sports and doing martial arts at the age of six years old. I've been working out since I'm six." Now, I'm lucky, I'm fortunate that my parents forced me to do that because that set the tone for the rest of my life to now where it's like, "Why would I, why would I ever stop working out or moving my body? There's just no reason to not stop doing it." So this is what I do. So like, you're, so you're just basically trained yourself. I was like, "Yeah, it's just I trained myself to get up and go do this, and even when I don't want to." So when I used to work out in the mornings, like it was the same thing. I'd be halfway through my warm-up before I was even awake. And I'm like, "Oh, I'm in the gym. Oh, okay." And, and because once you get your body on that path, it wants to keep repeating that behavior. And just like it takes, it takes time, those small subtle changes over time, to like when you start gaining weight or start losing strength and you stop working out, it's the same, it's the same process just in a positive manner. Right? It's the same process, just doing small subtle changes over time. Next thing you know, you look back three months later and you're like, "Holy crap, those gains are enormous." So that, that's why I always just use the science to your advantage. Use neuroscience to your advantage. Don't make it harder than it has to be. I mean, because the big thing, you know, this is a big goal you guys took on going, "All right, we're going to go do this huge." That's a huge challenge. So people listening, you know, it doesn't have to be a huge challenge. It can be, "You know what? I'm going to wake up 10 minutes earlier this week. And then next week, I'm going to wake up 10 minutes earlier than that. And then the week next thing you know, you're up an hour earlier and you're starting your day."

I'm just going to have a cup of coffee and walk around the neighborhood. There you go.

That's it. Like, that's, that's one thing you can do right now. And it doesn't matter if it's, "Oh, I'll start next Monday. I'll start over the weekend." It's like, "How about right now? Like, right, right now?" And, and so I think, it's, it's a, it's simple physics, man. Once that object is in motion, it's going to stay, it wants to stay in motion. So all you got to do is nudge it in the right direction.

Well, I think to your point, Brian, I mean, it's also, you know, staying consistent and doing, doing those things, creating those habits, like really creating those neural pathways that becomes super highways. You know, they may start off like a footpath, but if you know, through habit formation, they become really easy for you to ingrain those. But I think this, like, literally disrupting those is also really important, right? Because just like, you know, you got that guy in the gym, like you, Brian, is in there and he likes to stare at himself for 10 minutes.

Yeah, brushing your hair. And then every, everything— you don't know, it's all bad things. Like, "You're so fat. You're so—" Those are part of the rap.

"No one likes— that's all right. No one likes you."

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then you like, then you like, like bench press 500 pounds real quick. And then, you know, then you flex for another 10 minutes.

Ten minutes. Yeah. You drink your protein shake now.

I mean, absolutely. No, but I think you're doing, getting out of your comfort zone that way is like really important too. Like for me, like swimming was like, you know, a joke around with the hippo thing. Like the hippo actually runs along the bottom of the water. Like I, like, was literally running. And like I, I was, you know, I was not— I always thought I'm not a good swimmer. And so like me just getting to the pool was like a challenge, right? And it was uncomfortable for me. And I was gassed after like 100 meters, right? And then so like, how did I create an opportunity for me to actually do that? Well, I have my four kids. So I, I have four kids. I don't have six kids, John. Just throwing that out there. So, you know, of—

Yeah, I know the two kids that I, the four kids that I claimed.

The younger ones are getting advanced swim lessons at our pool. And so it's like, "All right, well, okay, I'm going to the pool anyways. I might as well get some laps in." And like, and so, but then it was like, "Okay, well, I have no freaking idea how to train, how to swim." Like you said, I mean, I had, I get it floaties issued to me in the Army. So who was I relying on? I mean, who do I know that's really good at swimming? Well, obviously, John's really good at swimming. I'm not going to ask him. So, you know, John Doolittle, again, bringing him up again. He's like, "Hey, dude, I've helped people train for triathlons and I was a collegiate swimmer. And by the way, I was a former Navy SEAL." Like, "You know, if you need some help." And so have my kids take a video of me swimming. And I got some feedback from John, right? And then so, um, his feedback was, "Don't swim." Yeah, from whatever that is that's in the water. Yeah, yeah. He's like—

He's like, "First of all, put a shirt on. Second of all, second of all, cut your losses. Third of all, you got a lot of work to do."

No, I mean, had I not had that help, like, first of all, it's a start. Second of all, it's like, okay, you know, and then I, I just was unconsciously incompetent. I didn't know what I didn't know. And so now, how do I move to being consciously, at least consciously incompetent, you know, phase two? Right? So I do that through feedback. And now hopefully, you know, I'll move into the phase three zone, which is to be at least, I'm consciously competent enough to survive to swim and hopefully get close enough to John to like, just like, elbowing him in the face to slow him down. But he'll probably be shot off like a rocket. And so I'm just, I'm just banking on the, the bike ride to be able to to make things up.

I've never seen a hippo on a bike. Tune in on October 16th. What I'm afraid of most, I grew up in Detroit. So we had all manners of wrestling shows each weekend. It's somewhere close enough that I could ride my bike or walk to. So I got to see the great Haystacks Calhoun, Pampero Firpo, The Sheik. I'm afraid that Andy's just going to lose it, John, and he's just going to attack you. He's going to fight dirty. He's going to pull the foreign object out of his trunks and try to gouge your eye and stuff. So I would just say, I would just say that, you know, is keeping it civil is important. Andy, I'm actually looking forward to that bad behavior on your part. So if you could work that in at some point, you know.

Yeah, yeah, stick through the, stick through the spokes, you know.

Those who would keep it interesting, more people will tune in.

Hey, hey Greg, you bring up an interesting topic and an aspect that we haven't actually revealed about this whole thing just yet. But I'll, I'll reveal a part of it right now on the show, is, in the race, there's going to be an opportunity to buy either support or detrimental aspects. So, you could buy like a goose for Andy, or you could buy a mile backwards run for John. That's hilarious. So there's going to be an added, added fun part, but also added fundraiser part as we get closer to the race.

You can buy me pizza and beer for the end. I am saving. Hey, I may buy you pizza and beer for during the swim. You see what I'm saying?

I like that idea. Right.

Brian and I have no money, but we're already saving up. We've got a little The Human Behavior Podcast coffee cup that we've been putting our nickels and dimes in. This is worth investing in. And I love that, John. That's a great idea.

They're going to be filming. They're going to be, we got through that logistically. We're going to be filming it live. So like, I, apparently, John, you tell you tell me, like, I don't, I don't think triathlons are very, are a spectator sport. So to kind of make it, you know, it's going to be American Gladiator. We may not be invited back. But, you know, Hunger Games.

Well, can I, can I donate like one of those, like, you know, like you, you strap, strap on like a little shark fin on your back. So when you're swimming in the water, there's like a little shark fin or going along top? I would love to see that. That would be hilarious.

We're getting close to a YMCA that Brian and I were working out in and a guy walked up to me and said, "Hey, where do you rent those sumo suits?" You know, the ones that people run into each other. And it was just me. And I was like, "Huh, this is so demoralizing." I hate me. Yeah. So 10 grand for 10 grand. John said, "Tell me in a dinghy in the swim." Oh, that would be hilarious. So, I, I do, I do want to ask you guys, like, what, what do you do? Do you have anything that you do when you hit that kind of, like, you're unmotivated, maybe you're tired, like, you hit kind of a wall, you know, and you still got it? You got to get your workout in, you got the stuff to do, or whatever that is. You got a bunch of work to do. We've all been there before. I'm curious, like, what do you guys have, little tricks that you do to kind of get yourself refocused back in the game and get something accomplished?

Yeah, for I'll start with this one too. I mean, for me, it's just reflecting on my values, right? It's like the, the principles at the end of the day that kind of the bedrock of who I am, what I'm all about. I, I do this a lot in my coaching practice and so it's, it's kind of like the frames of the lens on how you see yourself and how you see others around you, right? I mean, it's the bed core of your identity, right? So like for me, like being a competitor is, is at the core of who I am, is one of my top three values. And I describe what that is. Service-oriented, like trying to help people and, and making it not about me, but but it starts with me, is very important. And then the third one is just learning. And I've learned a ton about myself and about this process because I've never done a triathlon. So like, I remember so at the end of the day, it's like, "Okay, did I, did I accomplish my goal at the end of the day to get, get my miles in?" You know, and you could get really caught up in the outcomes and the results, right? You're just like when you're doing this, the volume of training, you're just, there's going to be bad days, right? And so how do you make it the best shitty day possible? And for me, at the end of the day, if I could say, you know, do that Ben Franklin exercise where at the end of the day I'm doing my journal and I reflect on my core values and, you know, it's like you answer the question, "Did I live this value, yes or no?" You know, if yes, then what's my score? One to five, or one to ten, or give myself a grade, you know? And so if I could say that I live my value, that I, you know, live my three to five core values every single day, then, then that's a win. You know, even if I didn't accomplish the, the tangible results that I wanted, you know. And so that's, I think that's really important to me because then it fuels me to that what I'm doing is the right things to do, you know, even when I, the, the results don't come.

Yeah, for, for me, I, one, I agree with everything Andy said there, which is crazy. But secondly, the, the for me like I like having intrinsic motivation, that's great. And that's, you know, great, that's the best type. But there's, there's days that I just don't have that intrinsic motivation. And, you know, I will lean on my, my support groups. I will lean on Andy. You know, we, we kind of let the cat out of the bag and that me and Andy will talk [] openly, but hey, we're texting one another like support the whole time. It's, it's like that old meme where, you know, veterans talk [] to one another's face, but support one another behind the backs. And civilians do the opposite. Well, that's exactly what we're doing. We're talking, talking all that trash openly, but really supporting one another. So I'll reach out to Andy or, or, you know, I wear this Whoop. One to track my, my performance and to track my recovery, like we talked about before. There you go. And I, and I have a, I have a group that we chat in and I'll go in in there and, and I'll see one, I'll see that people have been crushing it during the day and I haven't. So I'm like, "Okay, better get after it so that I get up in that, you know, that rating." And then two, I'll reach out and say, "Hey guys, I'm, I'm struggling today," and get some support. And then the third thing that I do, and this is kind of, kind of lame, but it works. I, I used to, Brian, I've been working out since I was probably six years old as well. And I, you know, I used to work out with gigantic headphones on and a CD player or even cassette player prior to that. And I don't know, I listened to like the soundtrack from The Rock and, and whatever was available and that would motivate me. And today, like, I get on YouTube and I'll watch a five-minute motivational video, you know, of, of David Goggins or Jocko Willink or whomever. And they're, and they're talking about how hard they've been training. I'm like, "Okay, I can get out, I can get out there and do a 30-minute workout." Again, not the all-around, not the all-or-nothing mentality. I can go after and get something done. But it's that extrinsic motivation that can help me sometimes when the intrinsic motivation is just not there. You got to find what that is.

Yeah, no, that's, it's kind of similar to what I do is always focus on what, what, what can I, okay, if I'm not going to be doing this workout or I'm not going to get to do this, what can I, what can I accomplish? Like, because we travel a lot and the worst is, you know, you're flying in somewhere, you got jet lag, you didn't sleep in the hotel, you're up half the night, you got to go, you know, training a team all day long. So it's going to be crazy. Like, what can I do? Okay, well, I can take five minutes and I can stretch out my hotel room. I can do some mobility and warm my body up for the day of just being on my feet and teaching and training, stuff like that. So it's like I always, what's the one thing? Yeah, I didn't get a workout in today, but I gave 10 minutes to myself to make sure I was, you know, my body was prepared. I always do that. And then I, I do, I've done the, the same things before where I'm just like, "Oh, man, I set afternoon time where I have time to go to the gym." And I'm in there, I'm just like, "Is this happening today or, or is today the rest day and tomorrow the workout? And what am I going to do here? Should I swap those two?" And then I know I shouldn't, so I know it's going to eat at me. So yeah, I'll pull up one of those videos or something where someone's doing something incredible. And like, it, it, that's when the motivation works for me because I'm, I'm not like the cheerleader motivator guy. I'm the guy going like, "You can make this stop at any time. All you have to do is stop working out." Like, I'm the opposite. Right? I'm like, "You know, why would you do that? Like, that looks awful. You look like you're in pain." Right? And so because, because I love it when people do that to me because that actually gets me motivated when someone's like, "Wow, you could probably just stop." I'm like, "Yeah, no, I'm never stopping because I'm dumb." You know what I mean? Like, I just, I just, I don't.

I wish you told me to do. I wish I would have had a prop ham that I could have held up when you guys were holding up your wrist because that's the, I'm in a domestic violence relationship with Little Debbie. That [__] is in every drawer and closet that I've got. And Brian, we go shopping before we hit the, the hotel and we get peppers and and apples and things to eat to, to fill those voids. And then I always sneak the shittiest, you know, sugary cereal kind of thing. And because I got to have that, I got to have that breakout. I mean, you know, this, this call is, is motivating. Now I want to go eat because of Andy, and work out because of John. And John, just the addition, just the addition of those sideburns. I mean, that's a, that's a bold statement walking around wearing those. I mean, I got to give you all the credit in the world. You, you've, you've changed over the last couple of years, but those are something. But I just want you guys to know that I'm trying to keep up with you. We all know that I can't barely get out of this chair. But you've motivated me and I'm definitely trying to, to improve my health and my stake in life. I'll be absolutely transparent with you, sleeping still kicks my ass. I, I followed Eric Corum. I looked at a lot of stuff online. I just don't sleep well. And, and, you know what, for years it was a badge of honor. "Sleep is overrated. Let's lead from the front. I never sleep." And, you know what? It, it, it ruined my health. So I would tell everybody, listen and pay attention to these guys because that sleep and recovery is hugely important.

Yeah, no, it, it is. And then when you get into the plus, you know, it's, it's learning what, because I always make fun of Greg, you know, when we're doing stuff, he's like, "Oh, always, this is healthy, right?" I'm like, "No, that's just sugar. You don't need to eat that."

Yeah, but it's healthier than potato chips, I guess. But like, yeah, but you're always right. You're always right because what happens is in my mind, it's like, "Okay, I have the idea." You know, it's a chicken or the fish. So I'll get the fish. And then I'll be eating the fish, but I got a, you know, two-inch thick breading on the fish, you know, next to my deep-fried artichoke or whatever it is. And Brian looks and goes, "That's all fat. You're going to die. I see you getting fatter." So that level of motivation that I get from Brian is hugely helpful because I need that. The problem is I've got the wandering mind. I'm the creative one. I'm always thinking about these great ideas. So when I'm in the gym, I'm already thinking about, "Okay, get this [] done so you can go do those other things that are fun," rather than saying, "The gym is the fun." You see what I'm saying? So I've got that heart. And the same thing, like sleeping, I'll go up and I'll lay in bed and and the five minutes, I'm tapping my foot and I go, "Okay, time to get up." And I got to get up and I have to wait again. And I know how destructive that is. But it's important, I think, to recognize that there's a lot of people like that that are out there that watch you guys and they want to be inspired. And, you know, you guys saying that you watch other people to be inspired, it's so funny to a guy like me because I'm like, "These are the most inspirational guys I know and they look somewhere else for inspiration." And it's not just motivation. I'm the most motivated guy you've ever met in your entire life. I've got the motivation of nine humans. The problem is, it's all for bad []. It's all for the wrong type thing. Do you get what I'm trying to say? I'm one step away from smoking the glass dick and just using up all the crack in Gunnison. So, so I've got to be honest. It's got to be on call all the time.

Yeah. And my line, man, I need you guys. I know when you're there, he just looks at me as like, "Are we doing this?" I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." Exactly. Exactly.

We've, we've had so many of those meetings and all of a sudden we're walking out and it's sunshine and I'm half in the bag and I'm going, "Ah, gosh damn it, I did it again." So, you know, if somebody else's clothes, it's just a horrible thing. So I look to you guys for inspiration. There's been nothing more inspirational than these last couple of months seeing you ramp up for this event. And it's not till October. So if my heart lasts, you know, I've been telling everybody my 60th birthday is coming up. And I've got two things going: 60th birthday and 60-inch waist. You know, I'm trying to get there. So if I live to see this event, I'm definitely going to be calling in and and having all kind of great [] going for you guys. Andy, I think eating while you're swimming, I think that's a good thing. There is the backstroke. So maybe the nachos on the belly. I don't know, but it's going to be something. If you send me some Little Debbies, I'll use the boxes kind of like a kickboard. I have a secret stash. Don't tell Shelly. And the good thing is Shelly's not a fan of this show, so I don't have to worry about that. But the funniest thing is, Shelly comes in all the time, cleans out all the []. So there's greens, there's all these healthy choices all the time. There's one, you know, coconut water in the back of the fridge, if I really need that healthy fat gram. And I've got the secret stash of Little Debbies. And there's three Little Debbie boxes that are in there. And I was going, "Oh, it's just a Nutty bar. What's the bad thing with a Nutty bar?" So I got to break that. That, that's my right now, Little Debbie's my hoe. And I, I don't know how to tell her now. I don't know how to tell her no. I don't know what to say. You know, I don't want to break up with her. We've known each other so long now.

That's been the hardest thing for me, Greg, your point is like, "How do you say, how do you say no?" And like, and it depends about what you do, about what you not do. I think when, you know, like I, I have, I've had attention issues my whole my life. And it turns out like people are in the Special Operations community about 70% of them have, can be clinically diagnosed. There you go. Yeah, yeah. And I tell people who you, especially young people who have ADD or have attention issues that it's overly diagnosed. I said, "Hey, but that's actually an indicator of high performance." And for me, trying to do too much and not prioritizing the most important, understanding what's important now and then prioritizing those things and putting first things first, but deselecting and saying no has been incredibly hard for me. Yeah, because I'm also a pleaser. So then being all over the place and liking variety and then having a high motor. Like, you know, I got this rocket strapped in my back because my mom said, and it just sometimes it self-destructs. Sometimes it's going to hit the target. But, you know, to me, getting that dial in those coordinates and what's important so I hit the target is super important. So like mentally, on the recovery piece, it's like, "Hey, I'm not going to do marathon back-to-back Zoom calls anymore. I, I'm going to shut my phone down at the end of the day." John does this better than anybody. I, you know, shout out to our friend Janelle. Like, you know, I do the Sunday digital detox thing with my phone. And so I don't always do that. And I can't always afford to do that. But, you know, if I, if I'm just deselecting a few things, it creates space for me then to have like the energy. You know, not within the construct of times. I think another thing people get caught up on is like, "Okay, well, I just don't have enough time for the day." Well, it's a finite thing, right? The variable, the variable that you control is your energy, your capacity to work within that, it's the construct of time. You know, and so, and there's a mental component of that energy piece, the physical piece. And I'm not talking about chakras and auras like John talks to talk about when he's meditating and staring at goats and killing them with his eyeballs. But, you know, I'm mainly talking about the managing your energy. You know, it's not like it can help you with that, that stress and work, but also the recovery. So think about like, "What can I deselect over the course of my day?" That's brilliant. And that, that's, that's as important.

I, I think you should have a gift shop, Andy, because John does. And I tell you, I've got quartz crystals all over the house and they've really, really changed my attitude. And now I'm going to go in and I'm going to try to cut a little piece of carpet to strap on the, the sideburn instead. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? I'm going to hang them on my baseball cap. And that way when I'm working in the garden and de-stressing myself, I can look in the mirror and go, "Hey, that's John. What would John do? What would John do?"

I just want to throw out the General Burnside with an Army officer. I'm just throwing that out.

Okay, here we go. No, I, that, that's a good point, Andy, is, is putting in, you know, a lot of times that's just with any type of goal setting. And when people don't always know what the goal is, they just know they need to change something or go after something. It's like, "Well, what do you want to do?" And like, "Well, I don't know." Or, "What, what, what's your goal here? What, what do you want to get out of this?" People don't always know. It's like, "All right, what, what do you not want to happen? What do you not want to do?" And, you know, a lot of times people like, "Well, I don't want this. I don't—" Okay, good, we got a place to start with, right? Sometimes having those are just as good as setting, this is specific goals. Because I'm, I'm like that too where it's like, "Well, I, I have the ADHD problem." I was like, "Well, I don't want to get off track. I don't want to do this." So I literally have my, the, the pink notepads here, Post-its are, that's what things come along. And I know, "Here's what I have to do. Here's the three things I have to get done this morning, today." Okay, cool. I got a list. I can knock off items off that list. And sometimes it's not always that clear. So it's like, "Well, I don't want to end up, you know, falling off or not paying attention, go down a rabbit hole reading something that has nothing to do with it. I actually need to get done today, but I just found it interesting." So sometimes just writing that stuff out is, is big. And I, I'm glad that you brought that up because I have that, that same, that same exact issue, man. We're like, "What's that over there? That's her."

I, I want to give you, you guys, I'll throw to you, John, first and then, and then Andy. It kind of like, you know, as we kind of bring the conversation in for a landing. You know, what it, what is it, what is it exactly? What—

Yeah, yeah, we just, we just ran out of fuel in flight.

So, so we're bingo on fuel right now. Yeah. What do you, you know, what, what are you trying to get out of this? Like, what is John McCaskill, who teaches this stuff and teaches about mindfulness and, and, and he has all these accomplishments, what are you then, why do you need to do this? What are you trying to get out of this challenge that you're doing?

I mean, I think we hit on it at the beginning, is I'm, I'm, I've gotten away from doing hard physical things. And, you know, I'm, I'm an entrepreneur, so there's, there's that. That is hard. I'm a father. That's, and that's hard. Yeah, whether it's of three kids or five kids, ask me one day, whatever the future will hold. But, you know, it's hard. But, but I haven't done physically hard things in a long time. And, and physically hard things, once you accomplish that, it allows you to get that confidence that begets you doing more physical hard things and more mentally hard things. You just get this confidence. So I, I think that I, I would like to get that out of it. And then secondly, as I get in better physical shape, I will have the energy to keep up with said three or five kids. And I think that's a big piece of what, what I'm doing this for. And then obviously, the fundraising piece, right? That, that goes without saying, but I will say it, you know, if you check out WarriorRising.org/ArmyVNavy2022. That's how you can find out more about the race, the competition, the [__] talk. And you can donate to us and I will tell you, you will feel better about yourself and you'll be better looking once you donate. So please donate to John. And maybe, and you know, if you can't bring yourself to donate to me, donate to Andy. That's perfect.

Well, I'll throw to you now, Andy.

Yeah, it's, well, for me personally, I mean, it's kind of been about my health, my health and fitness journey. Just taking a really good deep dive on a bunch of different things like, shout out to Warrior Angels Foundation, Dr. Mark Gordon. For those who have experienced TBI, there's a really interesting link between brain inflammation and, you know, a lot of the natural hormones and nutrients you place. And check out the documentary, Quiet Explosions. I mean, it will literally blow your mind, pun intended. But it's, it's one of those things where like, man, I had no idea that this was going on inside my brain. And then, you know, and then like, you know, like we look in the military, like the levels of maintenance. You get 10-level maintenance is stuff that you can do on your own. 20-level maintenance is stuff that maybe takes like some level expertise. And 30-level is like on another level, like, "Let's go back to the lab and do an overhaul." So like, I've ignored a lot of that 30-level maintenance on the mental side. And, you know, so going back, getting my brain healthy, starting to get help, behavioral health, trying to unpack a lot of the stuff that I've gone through in my life. It's in the stress I've endured the last two years, and everyone has, the pandemic and transitioning during the pandemic has been even more stressful and difficult. And including my kids, you know, who are teenagers. And, and I'm just really empathetic to the, the things that young people are going through. And why I'm so passionate about helping young people, especially young student-athletes and their coaches and parents. But I think so part of my health, my fitness journey is, is a big part of that too. But I, I also just want to, and you know, obviously I want to help people who want to help themselves. And I think that's what Warrior Rising does better than anybody. That you can do, you can do hard things. And it's not about doing something big. It's about all the little tiny things that allow you to then create big things to happen. That for things, frankly, I ignored a lot of my life too. And so just dialing in a lot of those details has been huge to me because I can control those. And those are incrementally will add up. And, and I think the, the last piece is just, you know, I, we really want to help these veterans who have some amazing businesses. We're going to start featuring 12 veteranpreneurs who are part of Warrior Rising. And they're going to be part of their, their part of their Warrior Rising Academy right now. We're going to be having called a business shower in San Antonio later in September to feature those businesses. You're going to start seeing the highlights of them too. And John and I know some of these guys. But just, I really have amazing stories. And anybody who's out there who's thought about, who has an idea, like an innovation, or they just want to do something, build a better mousetrap, or they just, you know, it's really daunting. And so Warrior Rising is such a great organization to surround you with the resources to help you do that, but not give you the fish. You know, they're going to teach you how to fish. And I think that's why I'm so passionate about it. And John and I are going through that right now. So, those 12 veteranpreneurs, surrounding them and highlighting them and getting more people the opportunities to live the American dream is a big part of this too.

Yeah, and and what you're talking about with all those examples and what we've been talking about on the entire conversation is that that connection is, is so important. And this is why I think people kind of overlooked how powerful impact COVID and what the lockdowns and the isolation did. Like when you start to isolate from others, you get it increases anxiety levels in you and you don't even realize it. That increase in anxiety will increase aggression and will increase, you know, that hate, anger, like just simply not being connected with people, that will start to turn you into that person. And and it you don't even realize that it's happening. So everything you guys have been talking about that we've been talking about is you're connected to someone, some group in some way. And that's, that's how you get ahead, man. That's how, that's how it works. You can't just rely on, you know, "I'm the— we're all like that, well, oh, [__] it, I'll just do it." And it's like, you know, where you get in that, "Oh, I can do this myself. I got it." And and we all fall into that. And you got to know that the more connected you are, the easier it is for you because you have not just people to hold you accountable, people to lean on, to rely on. And that's, that's the biggest importance. So I'll throw to kind of Greg to you for for any any last comments.

Yeah, I can't think of anything better for your mental health than listening to the heroes on this podcast. John, I, I hold you in such great esteem. Andy, the same. You guys have done so much in your lives to selflessly help others. And all kidding aside, I, I think I can't wait to go into this weekend rejuvenated by all the motivation and and guidance that I got from a couple of people that I, I hold as mentors. I, I tell you, you do coaching without even knowing that you're doing the coaching. So keep it up, keep up the great work. And know that we love you a ton. Help us get this podcast out to somebody that needs to hear it.

Yeah, thanks for having us.

Yeah, we thank you. Appreciate you guys coming on. And, you know, I'll put everything we talked about, all the links and everything will be in the episode details. We'll get it out there. Hippo photos. Yeah, some more, some more donations on there. Go to Warrior Rising. Just go click the link in the episode details right now and check out what they're doing. It's, it's exactly, it's good stuff. So we appreciate you guys so much for coming on. And to everyone listening, thanks for tuning in, and don't forget, the training changes behavior.