L.O.G. 155 People want their SAY not their WAY

Hello and welcome to the video version of The Human Behavior Podcast. I'm Brian Marren, the host and creator of the show. As always, I will be joined by human behavior expert Mr. Greg Williams, who the show is affectionately named after. On the show, we discuss different topics through the lenses of what we call human behavior pattern recognition analysis. If you'd like to find out more about what that is, please check the links in the episode details and go to our website to learn more. Please don't forget to follow us on social media; the links are also in the episode details. And hit the like and subscribe button to help support our work. Thanks for tuning in, and we hope you enjoy the show.

Good morning, Greg. Sir, we've had a busy week. We're recording this on a Friday morning, and it has been a little crazy this week, in a good way. So, yeah, it's been a very busy week, and we like busy. We do. Strangers are busy? No, we're not. So, discussing the potential podcast topics that we want to hit on, we're always batting a couple around. And then, with this one today, called "Most people want their say, not their way" – that's a saying that we've used countless times, including on this podcast. We use it all the time when we're talking about human behavior, and we use it in class. And I realized we've never actually fully defined or jumped in on, or explained, what we really mean by this. Because it becomes apparent when we're teaching, when we're in class, what we mean by it through the examples and stuff we use. But we don't get into it deeply here.

So, before we jump into defining, I want you to define what that means. But I want to explain to everyone listening how we use quotes or sayings. Because most quotes or sayings are just empty platitudes. People love posting stuff on social media or wherever and saying things like, "Hey, don't forget this!" But if you don't attach that saying to some sort of lesson, or you aren't able to conceptualize what that means, it's useless and it's stupid, right?

It's the classic, "Hey, Greg, if you see something, say something." "Hey, Greg, keep your head on a swivel." Oh my god, my neck hurts already! They're empty platitudes. But when we use this, we tie it [to] the idea – it's a memory-emotion link. So, if I remember "People want their say, not their way," that's supposed to remind me of a lesson that I learned that I can apply in this situation. Because, exactly, these sayings and our points... you know me, I'm very like, "Hey, I need bullet points, and I need things to think about."

This is one of those where, in a situation, I've used this. While I've seen someone acting differently and voicing their opinion, and the situation escalating, before I come off the top rope, I sit there in my head and go, "You know what? Most people want their say, not their way. Is this one of those situations?" It's a reminder, right? So, today, let's get into... And so that way, every time we use this, and we'll continue to use this in future episodes, our listeners now, if you're listening along, can go, "Okay, I know what that means. I know how to apply it." So, I have to throw to you first, because the one who's always said it is, "What do you mean when you say, 'People want their say, not their way?'"

So, you just gave us the why. I'll give you the how, and then we can determine the definition together. Okay? So, if anybody's ever worked with me in person when we had an operation, they know that I only speak in sound bites, because there's not enough time to go through all these detailed explanations. Okay? So, we'll pass in the hallway, and it'll be something like, "Six, five, seven, three. Stick to the basics." Okay? And what that means is the six domains, the five combat multipliers, the combat rule of threes. Do you get what I'm saying?

And the reason that we have these sort of cognitive abbreviations is because it opens the door. I want you to think of the White House and you know what the rotunda looks like at the Capitol. I want you to open the door, go into the Capitol, and imagine many floors of that rotunda. And most states have that same [structure] with their state house and stuff. And every time that you look at a door, you see a six, a five, a seven, a three. Do you get what I'm trying to say? "Most people want their say, not their way." Do you hear what I'm saying, though?

"Ten rules," or "Ten Years of Human Behavior" that we did a podcast on. Yeah, why? Because now if we're up there and I see you teaching and you're saying something, I can just say, "Combat rule of threes," and you'll go, "Oh yeah, it's February 14th, it's Valentine's Day, there was a very significant attack." Do you get what I'm trying to say? And I don't have to say, "Kasmarzak lets means that this is a cup within which memories are stored, and even though they're separate and distinct, they blend together depending on what the story is or what the message is."

It's like, it's like a, it's like a smell. I smell coffee brewing and I instantly come back to whatever that situation. I smell certain cookies, the Cinnabon, whatever. And it doesn't just... it's not just this one distinct information point that my brain [gets]. It's an experience wrapped in that, because all of these memories and information starts flooding back. And it's all at the tip of my tongue, it's at my fingers, I can use it right there.

Exactly, you're exactly right. So, think of back in the day when you could go to Taco Bell and get a Burrito Supreme. That was a gosh-darn Burrito Supreme! They were wonderful back in the day. And imagine unfolding that and seeing all the richness and the different sauces and flavors and everything that are going on. But when you eat it, okay, you're gulping it down and swallowing it all together. So, what we're doing is we're trying to deconstruct the memory-and-emotion link to data mine different points from it. Okay? That's it. So, we speak in these little, not colloquialisms, as much as sound bites. That's the best example that I can give you.

And you know that we do it all the time when we're in the vehicle driving, and remember, "We're going to La Shelley in this slide." And all we are doing is a series of just little transmittable messages, right? "Look at this, look at this, watch this." And then we would compare it to known or suspected file folders. That is a very efficient way, and it's much faster when you go into a situation. And it's also something where I can look at you in the middle of a mall and say, "Some people want their say," and you know immediately that I'm dealing with the "96," another abbreviation that is going to come up and do something. So, I'm cueing you up so you can orient to a potential danger, right?

So, it's like my mom and my aunt, God bless them, but my mom and my aunt had a German, what we would call a "pig Latin" version, where they could say just a couple of words that were in German, but were also pig Latin, but were only known to them. And when they did it, they could speak right in front of people and look like it was sincere and convincing, but what they were saying is, "Check out this Jamaica, we're getting scammed," right?

Yeah.

So, what's the difference between a platitude? A platitude is you taking somebody else's words and going, "See?" That's like making a mixtape. How many of us? Oh man, "Look, this is what I mean. What do you mean this is what I mean? Peter Gabriel said it best: 'Kissed my ass.'" No, but we flipped that on its end. You get whatever you use? It is like, it's a meme, right? It's a way to transmit...

Well, it's a way to transmit, you know, I can if I use a photo and caption it with something in reference to some current event, and it's funny and it's ironic, I'm transmitting a ton of information in a very, very...

Exactly, right. Very small.

It's just a quick image. And so that's what you're talking about. So, rather than, "You've worked with, you see that guy over there across the street [in a white] shirt and exactly looking around and shifty," it's, "Hey, three o'clock, white shirt, checking a six." You know exactly what I mean by that in that given context. You're exactly right.

Before I give the definition for this episode, I would tell you this. Okay? I sometimes challenge people's brains to get them cognitively warmed up for what's good.

We constantly do that.

Yeah, generally, I do that with little titles.

Yes, yes, we do. We literally do. We wet your appetite.

So, you remember, I wrote the lessons learned called "The Wizard of Ann," A.N. And that got to get people thinking. Because the way the title came up, "The Wizard of Oz," was that he leaned back and he looked at his file cabinet. And this file cabinet was A to N. And the next was O to Z. So, he wrote absolutely everything, L. Frank Baum, based on that first sentence on a notepad. Now, I want you to think of that for just a second, Brian.

So, when I wrote "The Wizard of Ann," I was challenging anybody to go, "Okay, where is he at now?" When I first saw the title, "What are you talking about?" And you remember the one, "Sense make versus scent make." I like to have a little bit of fun. We're "scent" with the S-C-E-N-T, or "sent." Well, we do the same thing with "thing" or "think." I get you thinking. You and I get people thinking about their environment by throwing these little things at them. They're not platitudes. One, we created them. Or two, we'll deconstruct somebody else's and rewrite it so it's a conundrum that your brain... Why? Because your brain has to construct order out of chaos, right? And so, by you having to untangle that knot in your fly-fishing gear, you learn more than catching a fish.

Yes, yeah, you see, yeah.

So, you're going to be at that bank for a lot longer than just catching a fish and going, "Oh, I can feed myself." So, now you ask the question, "What do I mean when we say something like, 'People want their say, not their way?'"

Alright, the idea is that most human beings want their life experiences to be consistent. They follow a script. That's why it's human behavior pattern recognition. Everybody has a pattern. We have to recognize it and then the analysis portion. Why? Because two patterns can seem similar but be completely different. That's why we're all unique little snowflakes, right?

But almost every human being, given a situation, turns into one or two characters. And that's another way of thinking of it. Old Popeye — not Popeye that your parents might have known — but old Popeye, and the guy that I never remembered that has the red Swingline stapler from that gosh-darn movie about offices. And I think it's called Office Space, but I don't want to say that if it's not.

No, it is. It is.

So yeah, that dude, I already forget his name. He's been in everything.

Yeah, "My stapler," "My red Swingline." Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, he's been in Volleyball and Dodgeball or whatever those movies are. He's a very frequent actor.

Something I think it is. He's, but I love him. I love him because he's such a great character actor. But in that one, he has a dialogue, a subtext, that's going on constantly. "Constantly, why did they push me around? I should burn this place." Yeah. Well, where he got that, Stephen... the actor is from old Popeye. Because if you watch old Popeye, the old Popeye is walking around going, "Oh, I don't like this very much. I think it's going to rain. Oh, I wish I would go out with me." He has this constant stream of thought that's going for the audience before he gets to the point that he's going to say something. What they do is they give you an inside look at his head. You see what I'm trying to say? What's he thinking about? What's going on right now? And that's where most of the jokes are. So, we have that script, Brian. We're walking around going, "I'm going to get screwed at the drive-through." We're saying that to ourselves. Okay? And if somebody could put the big, you know, horn up to our head, we would be able to hear and see that. So, we're constantly having this...

Real quick, because I do want to hit on that. That's incredibly important to understand, everyone. We do have that inner dialogue. This is why, if you had access to someone's inner dialogue, you would be able to better predict their behavior and better understand why they did things. But we don't realize that's going on. We take everything for right there, what happened at the moment. We're like, "Dude, this running dialogue has been going, building up to that." That's a great, great example. I love it.

I've got my cup in my lap, and I'm trying to drive with one hand, my other hand on my Glock like the idiot in the video, what I'm trying to say. And so, [expletive]'s spilling all over the place, and I'm trying to put some back in, and I'm wringing out my shirt to put it back in. And I'm driving up to the drive-through, and I just read about Wisconsin and homicides at the drive-through, and what's the other state? Gosh, I can see it, not Wisconsin, but Minnesota. All this is happening, right? And I'm pulling up and I'm going, "Man, I hope they don't put pickles on my gosh-darn cheeseburger!" This is constantly going on.

So, most people want their say: "Thank you," "Hey, good day." If you go into Southern states, you're not going to get a "You're welcome," you get what I'm trying to say. "Thank you." Okay, that is a consistency. That consistent message is real-to-real. That's how your brain works in either a societal encounter, a work encounter, or a family encounter. You go to that script and you repeat the behavior on that script over and over and over. Why? Because it's consistent, it doesn't burn a lot of calories.

Now, all of a sudden, you encounter a person that doesn't just want to say, "Hey, watch your step," you know, you bump carts in a City Market — my local City Market I make a start at national stage, right? But you bump carts and go, "Hey, sorry, I wasn't paying attention." Now, the other person stops and goes, "Yeah, you weren't paying attention. Do you know what attention means? Attention means to attend to your surroundings, and you failed." Now, that's a person that wants their say and their way, Brian. Because what they're going to do is they're going to put you on stage and they're going to ridicule you and they're going to tell you how it's going to be. That is so rare, it's remarkable, because those people are willing to accept the consequences or the confrontation, not just say what's on their mind.

So, before we get to that, I do... Yeah, one, I do love the fast food example you just gave. It's perfect for running your dialogue. There's so many examples. You know, that's why the movie, remember Falling Down with Michael Douglas? And he just misses breakfast by like a minute or something like that, and now he erupts in there. Well, obviously, there's all this going on in his life. That inner dialogue was building to that moment. And most people aren't manic, right? Now, most people's inner dialogue are just to their script. They're seeing that stuff coming out specifically at those types of places because this is where I'm supposed to be the customer who gets what they want, right? I'm ordering, and I tell you what I want, and you give it to me because I'm paying for it.

So, it's like, those are the... I mean, because you just said, it's funny that you just the other day, if anyone's been to the famous Wiener's Circle in Chicago — it's up on the north side, it's a great hotdog stand — but they just posted this video: Someone walked in, they didn't have a mask on, they tried to tell them like, "Hey, you know, you're supposed to have a mask on." He got all angry, started yelling, stepped outside, first grabbed a couple snowballs and whipped them into the kitchen right there. You know, he threw them, I was yelling. But then, not only did that and went off on them, it was verbally assaulting them, threw the snowballs, walked out, went around the block, grabbed a brick. There we go, came back and threw it at the place. You know what I mean? So, that's your example of, "I want my say and my way," right? But let's...

Because "say and way," let me just add one thing. If you would have gone home and you would have went to your computer and you would have looked up the owner of that company and say, "I had a poor experience and I just want to tell you about the counter person," or this or that, that's not "say and way." What that is is still just wanting to have your say. You understand? Yes, sending a memo to a person, that's it. Complaining to a manager, that's this, that's that. And we all fall in on that.

And the idea is, you know, you talk about, we want this as human... This is why social media works so well, because everyone gets to have their say and their opinion, no matter how ill-informed it is, how ridiculous it is. And then it kind of starts to snowball. But this is the ultimate tool to, "Hey, I want to have my say." And you gave a perfect example of complaining to the manager at a restaurant or something like that. That's very interesting, is you'll see that with people where they want to get it off their chest. They want you to understand why they're hurt, why they're offended, whatever the situation is. And that's somewhat normal. And we can talk a little bit about why we get to that point, meaning, yeah, there's some cognitive dissonance, there's some human [element] here, and we need to talk about that. Humans are inherently... I always talk about this and I know you wanted to, so I'll let you start, but humans are inherently hypocritical, right? We're very quick and...

You and I differ on there, right? You bring it up, and I love the way that you bring up the hypocrisy, and you love to let a person give themselves enough rope and then turn your argument against them and then smile and go, "And then you get what I'm trying to say?" "Go on." "Might mess my legs." You go on. That's it. Because I mimicked how you said it, but not the exact words. It's in my mind. I hear that all the time now. I love that. But that's your ambush, you set that trap.

Yeah.

When I say humans are hypocritical, it's because again, I go back to the experience being consistent. We want our life to be consistent. We're trying to curl up on the couch, have the popcorn, watch our number two show that we like. Yeah, supersize, you get what I'm trying to say. And we want it warm when we open up the burger, right? So, the way we script out our lives, it has to occur in that fashion or we get psychologically pissed off or physically there's dissonance, right? And remember, turbidity, turmoil, dissonance, all ways of describing the same situation where you don't feel... you feel out of sorts, right? Like you ever try to have a kid explain that they're sick and they go, "I'm sick," and you go, "Yeah, but what are you sick?" And they go, "I'm sick, I just don't feel right." They don't understand to quantify and qualify the sickness. They just know that they're out of sorts, right?

So, humans spend more time justifying or rationalizing their behavior than they do following their own advice. This is where I come in.

I would completely agree with that. And I would say that if you look at it from values... Values and beliefs are two different things. They're two different stances psychologically. And we can change our beliefs ten times in the same gosh-darn day, of course. Okay? But we don't change our values. And so, I'll give folks that are listening, and this is like the Macy's argument in Miracle on 34th Street. Everybody knows I like listening to Adam Parker. You like listening to Adam Parker, because the kid's so innocent, and he's grasping onto a concept that's so much bigger than him.

Yeah, he's trying to hang on. Yeah, I love him. He knows that he's felt it, he's experienced it. Yeah.

And we're watching him learn. So, to me, it's like, I've never seen The Truman Show, but I know what The Truman Show is about. Right? To me, Adam Parker is my Truman Show. Then let's go to Andy Reese. Andy Reese's "Tell it like it is," all this other stuff. But Andy Reese always assumes that you're equal with him at the arena. You're sitting on the sideline ready to come in. He doesn't understand that sometimes when he talks about something so basic, it's so out of the ken of a normal human. Yeah, so he feels so...

Makes you go look up stuff, right?

Right. And then we got Stephen Drum and Stephen Drum spoke about exactly what we're talking about. He did a [podcast as a] former SEAL. Love him to death. And what he said is "react and respond." Okay, well, I'll change that, because what they're talking about when they talk "react and respond" is the root word, the center of it is "action." Okay? Action is something we do to accomplish a purpose that doesn't mean it's consistent with our values or our beliefs. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Yes. So, that's where cognitive dissonance comes from. People go, "Well, you describe cognitive dissonance, I'm still mixed up." You don't have to be one. If anything confronts your belief system, that's cognitive dissonance.

If you expect this thing to happen, and that's how it's always happened before, but something different happens, and you've got to sit there like this [demonstrates a thinking posture] and your mind is doing the reboot, that's cognitive dissonance. So, what we, what you and I with this podcast are trying to create every day is a habit, a good habit, a habit of action that's done on a regular basis, which means consistent. So, we need to create a habit of action that matches a what? A habit of thought. Right? That's where I draw the difference. And that's where we kind of come in with that, of, you know, a habit of thought creates a habit of action. So, so they're separate and distinct, completely.

Exactly. But, and that's why, just even with this, and why I brought up the example, "People want their say," most people want their say. I literally use that in a situation as a habit of thought when I'm observing something. "Most people want their say," because it's a check for me to go, "Most likely, the most dangerous course of action is this person complaining to the manager and then they're going to see their way out, or is this person going off and they're going to pull a .38 out of their waistband and start shooting everyone in the place?" Right? And so, my always reminder when I see that, and even how to deal with it, it's how I deal with the insurgents sometimes, when she comes in, she didn't sleep well or whatever is going on, and everything in the world is burning, and I got to go, and I'm busy, and I got a lot going on, and I'm trying to determine what's really the problem. It's not either, "Go. Most people want their say," and I'm like, "Go on, Harper, go on!"

Exactly.

So, Brian, let's add that perfect example that you're given. Let's add to that. You know how I deal with humans if you've seen me in these contexts. So, it's, "What's on your mind?" You know that I'm probing because I want them to get it out. Let's get it out so it doesn't turn into a physical. But when you hear me say, "Hey, what's on your heart? What's on your heart? What's bringing you down? Tell me, tell me." And what's the first person going to say because they don't want to cross that dividing line, that foundry? They'll say, "Oh, you wouldn't understand." I know. So, "Tell me. You got time," you know. So, same thing with hostage negotiations, "Give me sixty seconds and I'll change your life." I mean, so, talk to me. Let's talk about how this situation is going to go, because the person wants to say. And once they say, they call it what? Venting. Yes. Venting is so hugely important to the human experience. Because if we don't get to do it, we internalize it, and we get fat, or we get angry, or we commit suicide. And we have to have that, right? We have to have that outlet. We have to be able to release that valve. And that's where that comes from.

We'll constantly be... all humans are constantly on transmit, whether they even... even whether they talk a lot or not. Meaning, we're always transmitting something, and we have to feel that we have our say. Because humans are so egocentric, and there's a million ways to explain this with different psychological issues, but we... I have to feel that I have value in my community and my role in my life, right? I have to feel like I'm part of something.

And so, like you said, bigger than you.

Yeah, when I have that dissonance, when something occurs, when you don't get my order right, and this is... and I saved up, and I wanted to take this girl out that I met to a really nice restaurant. I worked really hard to do that. And all of a sudden, it's gone wrong, and it's not my fault, it's your fault, Greg. You're the... like, I need to have that. I... this did not go as planned, and I worked really hard for this, and I paid my money for it. You were supposed to provide that for me. So, I have to let you know what that is. And so, it's extremely essential that everyone handles that stuff differently. But it's the same thing. I might go, "Hey man, like, I just got a quick question, you know, this my steak was kind of overcooked," or "this was the issue," where another person might pick up the plate and throw it into the kitchen, right? That range is different, right? Go in and get in the chef's face and say, "Take a bite!" You don't really have that option that's good that we have with society. But it's a way of, this is... this is, you know, I need either way, no matter what, where you fall in on that spectrum of reactions, you still fall in somewhere on that, right?

Let me tell you what you just hit on, which I think is important to today's larger discussion, and it's de-escalation. And I know you didn't want to talk about de-escalation, but I was so pissed when I read that article today, and I'm not going to attribute the three-minute read that incensed me this morning. I sent it around everybody like the, you know, Valley Forge, you know, "It's starting to fire!" What's wrong with the state of discussion about de-escalation in our country today is they don't understand that de-escalation has to be taught early and often, because it's not a habit of thought now. Okay? And it hasn't become a habit of action. So, it's merely an action, just like Drum tried to explain to people, and therefore it's inconsistently applied. You don't understand the nuances of Harry Potter's wand, so you only bring it out when the situation is already spun wildly out of control, right? Rather than saying, as dispatchers give me the call, as I'm combing my hair in the locker room, putting on my vest that morning, I'm thinking, "My policy is to de-escalate. I'm going to set up healthy boundaries for me and you. I'm going to set up healthy boundaries for our friends and family, and I'm going to set up a healthy boundary for the persons I meet on the road today." You get it? That's freaking de-escalation! And that's why it makes me so mad when people say, "Psychological de-escalation is hard, because you have to understand human behavior." Yeah, that's okay, I'll buy that for a dollar. But what have you done today to understand human behavior?

Well, that's the key. What have you done is the application. But then that is kind of the segway, though, into the second part of this discussion, and it'll continue, we'll reference back to everything we talked about, right? But there are people that want their say and their way. Now, that's a different individual. So, I'll throw to you again for kind of an explanation on that, because we just said people want their say, not their way. Now, then there's a very different person who goes, "No, I want my say, and I want my way." And those are the people we need to look out for, right? That's the difference.

These are psychological stances, and a person that wants their say and their way is remarkable. So, what does the word "remarkable" mean? That it's worthy of a remark. Mark, it's amazing, right? Do you understand? So, it's notable, notable, and remarkable, or entertaining.

It's like, it's like we... we... this is important too, because some semantics are very important, of how we use words, and especially in a clinical sense, and especially how we describe something. Because that instantly reminded me of when I use the term "manipulate." I use it in a clinical sense of what it is, and this person got very butt-hurt and upset that I used the term "manipulation." But anyway, I know so...

Some people go, "Why do you spend so much time in class creating a..." The right lexicon is important, or you're going to send the wrong message. And when you send the wrong message, you're on transmit and not receive, and a lot of things happen. So, let's talk about the question that you just asked. Yeah, are those people remarkable? Yes. Does that mean that person is dangerous or going to act out violently? Not necessarily. Certainly not, right? Because what it is is it's a psychotic or an immediate break, or inconsistent, random break, a temporary reality. Yeah, right? It can be temporary. It can be a person that is a sociopath or a psychopath. And we've all learned because here's the problem with any magazine that you buy: it's the same article over and over and over and over. So, what happens is an article that they talked about, "Did you know that you can have a psychopath in your boardroom?" Yeah, of course, we all know that, right?

Yeah, if we don't, what school are you going to?

But they rerun that article about every three years, and they look at it as is this is a bad thing or a negative thing. It's a descriptive analytic. It's a measurement. It's a way to measure something. This is that person. That's it. That's all. All of this stuff is... it's all, all of those terms is, or ways to look at it like that is a measurement device, and that's it. Now, what you do... it's like saying that person is 71 inches tall. Okay? Yeah.

So, what does that mean? They can or cannot go on this. Yeah, what are we...? So, what does that mean in this context?

Yeah, exactly. Now I need to get that roll paper towels from the top shelf. Does that...? So, the idea is only you can determine whether the person's psychopathy is going to lead to something dangerous, because some people can be uber productive and burn out other people around them. And people go, "Are they sociopaths?" Yeah, I get it. Those are people, Brian, that surprisingly want their say and their way. Okay? Yeah.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing. No, that's... I always give the... I'm sorry, what's his name? Steve Jobs from Apple. Yeah, that's a perfect example because he's driving harder, faster, more than anyone else around him, develop this product, this thing. He's not doing it to kill people, right? He's to, or make the world a terrible, horrible place and burn everything down. No, he's got this...

So, so look at us the first day that we meet new people where we're setting up in person for the class. We've talked to them, we've had a Zoom with them, we've done the capability brief with them, all this other stuff. We get to know them, they put half down. And then all of a sudden, we fly over and we come in, and they've got the room set up like they think it's going to be set up. And what do we do? We immediately start moving stuff around, right? And hanging stuff up, and they come up to us, "Can we help?" And we go, "No." Why? Because we want our say and our way, because we know that it's going to lead to a positive outcome cognitively for the students. Yeah, so we don't mean it in any certain way.

Now let's change that context and we're back in the restaurant. Okay? And a person comes over and goes, "Hey, you know, can I have the salt on your table?" And you go, "Yeah, you want me to salt your food too? Should I cut it up for you?" And then you stand up and you get in a person's face. What you've done is you've used an inordinate response, right? Escalated a situation, because now you want your say and your way. And your way might be that I'm a bully, and I want everybody else to hear that I'm going to tell you and, you know, dress you down. All of that behavior, okay, starts and ends with a psychological stance of negativity, okay? Which means that I am miserable in my own life or in my own way or whatever, or have some other intent. Yeah, I'm writing my script as we go. I'm not exactly sure... that's where road rage comes from. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Not exactly sure how to use advanced critical thinking. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to insult you, you know.

That kid does it the best, the comedian, Kevin something short... Kevin Hart, when he's in the 40 Year Old Virgin. I'm sorry folks, I can only watch reruns when they had the free weekends. And he goes, "I don't understand what you're saying, and I don't understand those words, so I'm going to take that as an insult." But what he's doing, Brian, is having you say that his way. Do you get what I'm trying to say? He's saying, "You're not conforming to the script that I have in my head that I'm the hero in this instance," or whatever that script is, right? And so, I'm going to change the outcome. So, you tell me that I don't have my ID so you can't sell me a lottery ticket. So, instead of walking away, I have to use the F-word and I push down the Jerry's Kids, you know, put a dollar in the thing and knock off the stuff on the counter. Why? I had to have my say, Brian, but my say wasn't enough, I had to have my way too. Yeah. You see what I'm trying to say? I'm not just going to drive out of the parking lot. What am I going to do? I'm going to squeal the tires when I leave to have my say and my way. That's where the danger is, because what I don't understand is when I ramp up my 'tude, my attitude, okay, I may inadvertently create a risky environment for you and your kids driving home from church or whatever. You see what I'm trying to say? You don't have the right to change the social balance, to change our social agreement by squealing your tires out of that parking lot or accelerating past me or doing a road rage, because that needlessly puts me in danger. Got it.

That's it. And then, and that's everything. I mean, got it, to the people listening. That's every, you know, insider threat attack. That's this. Yeah. That's workplace violence stuff. That's someone that they don't just want their say, they want their way. They're upset about something, and then the only thing they know is violence, or the only thing that the option that they think that they have is that. So, they're not just saying, "You know, hey, I should come in here..." Well, first of all, if someone's making a threat that one day I'm going to come in here and shoot up the place, you need to take that seriously. That's a threat and stop. All stop. There's no, in a clinical sense, normal situation or reason for you to ever have that response. No way to walk that back. Wait, no way. That's such... these things are so obvious. It's like going through, we're working on that thing and going through all the different school shooters and looking at everything they write and draw and say. And it's like, it's all almost could be in the same book, and you wouldn't know that it was a different author on each page. But the idea, it's because humans are on transmit and they want their say and they want their way, right? That's the person that is going to escalate. That's the person that does have a plan, that, "You know what? I am going to come in with a gun and I'm going to bring it in from my car and I'm going to shoot up the place." Right? That's the difference between having your say and having your way. Right? But it doesn't have to be that extreme like you just said. That's the, you know, a guy I just... you talked about from Wiener's Circle in Chicago that threw the brick through the place. He wanted to have a say, and he wanted to have his way. He didn't get his way, so he went and did it. "I'm going to get my way now."

So, let's quantify that, because you just made a hugely important point. So, a cop comes to the door, says, "I need to talk to you," a domestic violence situation or something like that. You say no and you don't let them in. You're having your say and your way. Now, the cop says, "Listen, I don't want to force my way into you, but I have every right to come in. What do you want to do?" So, now you decide you're going to turn it into a barricade. You put something in front of the door and yell from the bedroom, "No!" Okay? Now, the cops have to boot the door. They come in, they notice your significant other has or doesn't have injuries. You see the scenario building, Brian? And now the person that's in the bedroom closed the bedroom door and they say, "No, you're not."

So, all of those are instances where a lower level of threshold has been met where the person is describing to you that, "I want my say and I want my way." So, anybody in that environment, whether your HR, a family member, anybody else, should see that there's an escalation. You see the way the triangle is building, and I have to use a de-escalation strategy. "Okay, listen, you can stay in your bedroom, but I'm afraid that you might hurt me." "I'm not going to hurt you, I'm just not going to jail." "Well, tell me about that. What happened that you think you're going to jail?" "Wow, you've been here before." What are we doing? We're dialoguing now. Yeah, and dialogue is a form of de-escalation. Do you see what I'm trying to say? Now we've got the other thing. Now the person's quiet, they're down the hall, the woman's injured, "Hey, he's got a gun." We can get to a nexus where the vacuum that has been created by the person — remember, it's the actor that's causing it — it's so great that it creates an inevitability. And I am telling you right now, when the outcome feels inevitable, you have to de-escalate fast, or you're going to have five cops shot in, where was it, Arizona this morning. Do you get what I'm trying to say? A situation can rapidly unfold and go so sideways. Why? Because human behavior is just like anything that's like not putting the Tupperware on when you put your food in the microwave. It's like putting a pastry cream in a gosh-darn plastic bag and applying too much force; it's coming out somewhere. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

So, if I've demonstrated, Brian, at the beginning, if I've demonstrated that I'm a person that likes their say and way, even at a lower level, at a very low level, anticipate. Yes, that they're likely going to do that brick guy. I know brick guy is going to run when I go up to contact. I know it. Okay? Yeah, because he's not going to stick around. He's going to go, "[expletive], that was stupid!" And then when I do get him, okay, he's going to go, "Alright, let's not turn this brick into a homicide." You get it? Okay? But if it was drive... you know what I'm trying to say? So, so people tell me all the time, "Well, that article this morning that's based on human behavior and you can't make any..." What do you mean you can't make any? I can make a whole bunch of judgment calls on your current behavior, the environment, the context, and relevance of you being in this environment, Brian. I just... I just set up predictive analysis 101, right? And predictive analytics is right more than it's wrong every time. You get what I'm saying? Do I have to apologize? Yeah, every once in a while I apologize, but why? Because the signal for opportunity and danger is so close, the bandwidths are so close. You get what I'm saying? So, what do I mean by that? I mean that I go up and I go, "Hey, you're acting tanky!" And it's an undercover cop. It's the security guard, right? Rather than the criminal. Those are examples of how to deal with it at a low level and identify it. Does this person want their say or do they want their way?

Because as you know, you brought up at the beginning, it's one of my ways of... I deal with folks. It's like, I just learned just to go on, you know. I see someone yelling or upset about something, I'm just like, "Right, go on. Please elaborate on that." But you're doing emotionless.

You do it emotionless because you don't go like snarky like, "Yeah, no."

No, not at all. You want to keep the baseline and I give them almost a complete blank, emotionless stare to go...

Exactly.

And because they don't... they don't know how to read that, because I'm not escalating, I'm not de-escalating, I'm letting them have their say. And when you let someone have their say, they're either eventually going to run out of stuff to say and run out of gas, and that thing is going to stall by the side of the road, or you're going to be able to tell, "You know what? This person's not running out of steam. They're ramping up, and they want their way in this situation, not just their say." And I've used that and I know you're exactly right. And it's your approach is different, right? You talk about different, you know, you the one I've already heard you used before with the kind of like the hostage negotiation one, like, "Hey man, give me 60 seconds and I'll change your [expletive] life." If you get a pause in there, if you get something, I got to have that way. But it's very different. You know, we people ask us for advice or ask us to talk to people all the time. Big one was I had someone who was... it was a kind of like a suicide issue where this person was having suicidal thoughts, they were having a lot of mental health issues. And that the... my friend explained to me the whole situation. I said, "Ask him a bunch of questions." Said, "Let's go talk to him." He said, "Can you talk to him?" You know, he was military, he was this, he might connect with you. Walked right up, "Hey Bill, what's going on? Hey, how you doing? I'm Brian, I'm friends with Steve over here. Hey brother, I need to know, are you thinking about killing yourself?" Because right off the bat, you did it just like...

Folks, if you know Brian and you can get on YouTube and see Brian's face, he did it exactly with that same face. Brian didn't judge, he wasn't angry, he wasn't animated. He was just completely blank, blank slate.

Because, but why would I ask that question? Because if there's a pause, if there's any other answer, there's danger besides no. Like, then that means they've at least had that thought, maybe not a plan, maybe not this...

Add to that for a cop. A cop walks up to a person and says, "Hey, you got your hands in your pockets. You scare me. Do you have a gun? Do you have a knife in there?" Okay? If the person goes, "A gun? Do I have a gun in my pocket?" You got... you get what I'm trying to say? Okay. What you need to do is you need to try to solve it at the talk stage. Why? Okay. So, imagine, and this is for you folks that constantly put these gosh-darn "hang in there" platitudes all over... and I'm not... if that makes sense, it makes you feel better. I guess.

Listen, you're not changing...

You know, and some of it I do have to say is, you know, someone might see that and go, "[expletive], you know what, you're right." If it gives you inspiration, like if... so, I get it. And I'm just... I'm just saying it's often meaningless.

Yes.

Because don't live somebody else's life. Live your own. Yeah. So, here, here's my advice. I want you to create a memory and emotion link. And I want you to think: the tea kettle. I've got a blue ceramic tea kettle that's in there that I use all the time. I love tea. I've got to sometimes go decaffeinated. And Shelly and I drink eleven pots of coffee between four o'clock and six o'clock in the morning. I switch it up to tea. You know, it's like so I got to do that with the green tea from Starbucks too.

Exactly.

So, I want you to imagine that tea kettle on the stove. When the tea kettle is sedentary and it's just sitting there with the water, it makes no noise at all. Doesn't bother anybody. And maybe you have to wipe the table around it. When you click the little switch to start warming it up, I got the Asian-inspired one that has a spindle, ever since we stayed in Riyadh, yeah, you know, I got water [boiled] in like 90 seconds.

Exactly.

So, you press a button and it tells you when it's done. So, the beauty of this type of tea kettle is now inside it has turmoil, it has turbidity, it's heating up. So, it starts bubbling, and when it reaches a certain level, the sensor makes it go, and now it whistles. Okay? Yeah. So, when a person wants their say, that's them whistling. And that's when you go over to the tea kettle and go, "Hey, listen, it looks like you're under some pressure. What's going on?" What do I do, Brian? I remove it from the heat by letting it vent.

Now, let's say that we don't and we leave it on there. That effing thing is going to melt down, Brian. It's going to melt, and it's going to ruin your countertop, and it might start a fire with your little moo glove, whatever you got there for the heat, folks. You know what the hell I'm talking about. The idea is, Brian, that if you don't and, and let's, let's be scientific, isn't that a level of de-escalation? I've taken it off the burner. Okay? You see what I'm trying to say? I mean, we constantly make this harder than it is. And when anybody says, "Well, de-escalation is hard, you don't understand." No, you don't understand [expletive]! You can't tell me that it's different in every situation. Life is different in every state. No [expletive]! Like what I'm trying to say. So, don't answer me with why it's hard. Answer me with what you've done today to change it. So, going in and taking that pot off the heat has changed the dynamic. Do you understand what I'm saying? And I'm talking again to the people at home, because I was so incensed by the article that, you know, it's like you get these people about the global weather [expletive]. I don't know anything about the weather, okay? And I'm trying to be as green as possible, and Shelly and I recycle, we do all that stuff, we try to eat healthy, we try to do sustainable, okay? But I don't understand, I'm not a scientist about how the environment works, and most of the people that are commenting aren't either. So, how about for the first time in your life slowing time down and getting a scientific opinion? So, all these people that are coming up with a thing to de-escalate their environment, I would say that stop for a minute and go, "Hey, what's on your mind?" And when the person tells... Now I'm not talking about the hobo with the gasoline, who's trying to scam. Yeah, you're trying to say that person that's grumbling to themselves, Old Popeye. Go up to Old Popeye and say, "What's on your heart? What are you talking about?"

And what I brought up too at the beginning, or close to the beginning, is how to use this saying. And that's another example of how I use it, especially towards anything on social media or any social concern, or any this loud noise that's out there. Like, we often take the reason why they escalate is we often take things too seriously, right? And the process... everything is an emergency.

Well, exactly.

And the problem with, you know, not everything is, "Oh, did you hear what this person said or that?" It's like, look, people say stupid [expletive] sometimes. No one's perfect. I'm not excusing anyone's behavior or what they said, but the idea is, remember, people want their say, not their way. So, so on that social... these social media platforms, there's so much noise and you can go down this hole of just [expletive]. And it's great, and it's just one piece. It's just confirmation bias all day long on those things. Yeah. But that's why I take that with a "people want their say," not necessarily their way. And it also allows me to focus on something because here's... here's what we deal with, Greg, is, and it's this kind of goes along with what we're talking about, is we care about intent, right? In all humans, that matters to us more than anything, right? Meaning, I care more about what you're going to do than what you're going to say. So, the problem with getting upset and having this, you know, reaction to all this noise that's out there, and every time someone goes off on someone and yells and screams, the problem with that is we then miss... we miss the people that are actually going to do something. Right?

Right.

Yes, the people with the test is too broad. You know, it's like, it's like any protest or riot or anything that's occurred, there's so many people there. There's people there that have a very clear intent: they want to disrupt things and do something wrong. There's people there that are [expletive] haven't left their house in months and went, "What's going on down the street? I want to get involved." There's people there that are partying. There's people that have no... you know, like there's all these dynamics, but we lump it all into one. And now that's a problem when we do that. One, we miss those key actors that are doing bad. We miss the whole point of what's going on here, and we... we do it... it kind of weakens our understanding of all human behavior by not understanding that us too, as humans, we're horribly hypocritical. Right? I mean, they're horribly hypocritical.

You have to comb your tongue when we're done.

Yeah, I don't know, there was a little fly just went in the mouth here or something. I don't know what that was talking about. Yeah, I wish so. Um, I'd be much more... I don't know. But your point... but your point is, is this is also how I use these sayings that we have. This is how I use it. That's why we're talking to the how and the why. You get what I'm trying to say? To give you an architecture in your own life for creating a difference, for sustaining a difference. And it's very simple. And when I approach those situations and see it, I go, "Does this person just want their say or do they want their way?" How? If they want their way and they're going to do something, how have they demonstrated that? Because they're yelling and they're yelling at the manager and they're making big arm movements, and this is a big problem. But they kind of take a step back towards the end. We're still, let's say, every once in a while. You know what I mean? They're like, "Okay, they're... they're not planning to stick around." It's different than someone that plants their feet, "I'm not going anywhere," and it's hands on their hips, crosses their legs, and you're like, "There you go. Okay, wait a minute here." So, so that just digging that is how I handle it too. Because, you know, we can identify that stuff and then I don't do the "go on" when I know it's someone who wants their way. That's very different. Now I have to change that.

Because you don't want to put a chip on the shoulder.

Yeah, yeah, I don't want to get in the way of what they're doing. Can I escalate that situation? You know, and that's so...

Let me, let me, let me, let me caveat what you just said, because that's such an incredible point. And folks, if you're listening, pull over for a minute, put the yellow pad on your lap. Brian, I'll ask first a rhetorical question for everybody that's in the audience: How many times have you called 9-1-1? Now think about that for just a second. In your lifetime, only a few? Or once? For some people, never. So many people never. Okay?

Now, I'm terrified, so I always call 9-1-1.

Exactly, which is okay. And remember, we'd rather have you call, whip it out, you know, early and often so it doesn't escalate into a danger. But listen to me, I want now everybody that just answered that rhetorical question, I want you to think in your own mind, being the dispatcher. I will guarantee you, go around and do your own research, dispatchers get a bunch of calls that aren't emergencies. And that's what a dispatcher is for: prioritize before they give it to them. So, why do people call 9-1-1? That's what you stop for a minute and listen to what I just asked you. People call 9-1-1 because they've already escalated out of, "I need to have my say, and nobody's listening around me," so I'm going to call 9-1-1. Why? Because I guarantee you that person is going to listen to me. It's the only place, it's 24 hours that's operated that somebody has to listen to you. I have to. And now I can say my way. So, if you're the dispatcher and you're tuning it out and going, "Sir, sir, I can't look if the person with the leaf blower..." Do you get what I'm trying to say? Now, this is a very common complaint. But an 85-year-old woman stabbed two people in San Diego the day before yesterday because they blew leaves on her lawn... graphs, actually. But do you get what I'm trying to say? So, if somebody goes to the step of dialing 9-1-1, take it seriously, because they're on the cusp of having their say and having their way.

So, now throw out everything I just said and look at your own life. So, a person that you've never met before says something in your presence. You need to stop for just a second and go, "Is this significant?" "Go on." Do you get what I'm trying to say? Right? Or, "Hey, what's on your mind, fella?" You, you're what I'm trying to say. Don't be aggressive. Don't change. And what's a de-escalation stance? Blade your body, put your hands up. Do you get what I'm saying? I mean, go to training, you'll learn all of those. But the idea is that calm voice, Brian. Maybe that person, look, you don't know how full that person's cup is when you accidentally bumped into them or walked past them or didn't give them the nickel for their thing. So, don't assume that that person is where you are and it's homeostasis. They may be one splinter away from killing themselves or killing everybody in that store, and you have the power potential. You could be the catalyst for change.

And then, and that's the idea. What are bad? Right? And that's... that's important. When you see those, there's always two sides to that coin. And so, you know, you... not to throw in another saying, but you know, you do the, you know, "A simple change in perspective can change your life." And when we say those things, you know, this is because just because the situations you're talking about, the example you're using it, yeah, it's... we mean it in a both literal and metaphorical sense. But sometimes, like you just said, you gave the tea kettle, "It's boiling, it's time to take it off." Sometimes literally getting someone to turn their body and face you in a conversation or change the setting or scene. Huge. What you have what that person now has to do psychologically is, "Okay, I now have to reframe this. I'm in a new place, I'm in a new perspective." Even if it's only a little bit. I mean, it's so powerful sometimes to get that. You ever get someone just to turn and start walking a little bit? "Hey, now we're moving. Now we're doing something else. Now their brain is occupied with something." So, now all of a sudden, like turning your back and walking away from your first TV...

You're exactly right.

You can't yell, I can't yell and scream at you, Greg, and be a coherent message while I'm juggling a ball and walking backwards. To occupy someone's attention like that... I mean that change in perspective...

I'll give you a perspective change. Do you know the band Sublime? How could you not, right? Yeah. So, if anybody loves me, they... they, I... I feel unloved now, so send me love. But they know that I love Sublime. If you're around me anytime, you know that I'm constantly reciting the lyrics. So, one of the things, because why? Because it fits the situation. You've got something emotional, right?

So, I... I walked up. I remember exactly, it was a 12 and Van Dyke. I pulled over a sled. I walk up, it's a guy. Neither of the kids are in the seat, they're both looking out the rear deck at me as I'm coming up. And this guy's obviously the tea kettle man already. That's why he's driving blows. He's already at home, the old lady is going to get tuned up, he's going to kick the dog and everything else. And I come up and he's already on transmit, "Rev, how about you, baby?" at me. You know, of course. And then I don't want to give all the language, but I'm in full uniform, it's broad daylight, you know, I'm making on the way back from court and Mount Clemens. And I walk up to the door and I see all of this. And I walk away, and then I think in my mind, "It's this [expletive] up situation with these [expletive] up police from Sublime." And I put myself, transported into the car, into that guy and everything else. And I walked up and I go, "Hey, do-over!" And he goes, "What?" And I go, "We're going to do a do-over. I just walk back up, let's start like we never met each other. We don't have any preconceived notions. Step out here away from the kids and let's have a chat." I put on the Father Flanagan. Do you get what I'm trying to say? We calmed down, he thanked me, introduced the kids, I gave him the plastic badges, and we got where we needed to be, Brian.

Alright, now you know what the other way is? It's called the demon drop. I reach in, grab him by the top through the vent window and, and right now some people are going, "Yeah, that demon drop sounds good." Listen, you would have hands as big as Andre the Giant if you fought everybody that needs fighting, and you can de-escalate a situation merely by thinking to yourself, "Most people want their say, not their way." And words, words hurt. I'm with you. Yeah, they have the same token, their words. If we allow them to hurt us, then we open up to the inevitability of the contact. We open the situation to the likelihood of an increase in danger. You see what I mean?

Yeah, and I keep saying, "You see, Brian." I'm so passionate, and this morning, reading that article that just came across and said, "You common people." The two things that will piss me off more than anything is an article written by a former cop that says, "You common people know nothing about de-escalation because you haven't seen what I've seen." Yeah, one, get the violin. Kiss my ass. You don't know my life. Anyone, right? Anyone with kids understands de-escalation. Special needs kid, right?

Oh, even, yeah, even more so.

Okay. Then the second part of that is I keep getting these in my inbox from strange sources where it says, "Hey, just let me do my job without killing me. You didn't know that I was on a homicide and then the pedestrian P.I. and then that's..." Yeah, you signed up for the job. You know what? GM is hiring. There's a bunch of other jobs out there. So, if you take a job in healthcare, if you take a job as a first responder or a teacher, if you take a job in HR, guess what? Reap the whirlwind and be really good at it, and shut up and listen to this episode for a minute. Because we don't know everything, but we do know this: We do know that most people want their say, not their way. Right? You can make a huge difference today.

No, and that's... those are, those are great points, because those are, it's those are exact examples. "Well, you don't understand." That's, that's my, "Go on." Okay? That's it. Yeah, you know, like it's, it's interesting and it's horrible. It just reminded me, you know, my wife, she just had a friend who died young, cancer recently. Just went to the funeral yesterday. It was horrible, like it came on so... And she's, of course, one of those people that like everyone loved this person, they made you feel like you were the most... Like, so it's just, it's heartbreak. And anytime this stuff happens, you know what I mean? But the same thing is like she, she afterwards, we, you know, we're talking about it, she's like, "I can't..." Like, she started apologizing to me. I'm like, "What's wrong?" She's like, "I feel so bad. The last few years you've had to go to these different funerals for friends who died or killed themselves, or veterans, or someone who died in combat." She's like, "And like, I didn't give you the empathy sort of you deserve for all that." She's like, "I haven't had someone my age die since I was in high school." When did one of her high school friends die when she's in high school? It's like, it's been that long. Usually everyone I know in my life, you know, family or friends, like they died because they're older, their 70s. It's like, "I haven't had this feeling." And she's like, "I feel like a piece of [expletive] now because you were handling all that so well and we never had this." And it was just like that change in perspective. And the reason why it kind of reminded me of that right now is everything you talked about about how to handle those situations and understand. She's like, "I never," she's like, "I didn't have that perspective of someone dying except for at a young age when they were 16, right?" And everything since then has been family and, you know, that older. That's like, "I didn't have that in my 20s and 30s. Like, Jesus, you've been living that for how long now?" And I'm like, "Yeah, it [expletive] blows." And she's like, she's like, she's like, "Holy [expletive]!" But, but you know, even my wife was empathetic and amazing human being and just just just an absolutely incredible human being. I don't know why she's with me. Like, is neither weird? No one else...

Thank you. Wasn't that Shelly's comment when she met her? "Exactly, why's she with Brian?" Exactly.

So, she said that in your presence. Yeah. So, yeah. But listen, but that's the thing is like you, you can't... you don't know what that person's in. You can't have that perspective. Then, then how do you, you, this is what we're talking about is you've got to let that other [person] say.

So, listen to me. Suicide is the ultimate, "I want to have my say." Right? Because I am in pain and I'm hoping that you intervene, and I'm hoping that somebody catches on, but I'm in such hopelessness and despair, I can't see a way out. And I'll give an instance that everybody is laughing about today, but they don't think of how serious it is. A guy sees a bear on his property, goes to load the gun to chase the bear off his property. He accidentally shoots and kills his brother. Then turns around and commits suicide. Why? Because he couldn't deal with the situation. He didn't want to face the consequences. He loved his brother. Now a similar incident is going to come out and then it's going to be, "Oh, it's just a cover for a homicide, it was domestic and the bear was made up to do it." I'm not talking about that. What I'm talking about is whatever your story is, if you feel helpless and despair, you feel like the tea kettle that's still on the stove, Brian, and you're not getting any relief, what are you going to do? Oh yeah, you're going to be gunning your mouth. Absolutely.

So, so so folks, this isn't a platitude. This is a serious conversation. This is a great conversation for your church, for your kids, for your HR roundtable, for you and your business. Take this tape, learn from it, dissect it, make fun of us, use us the comic foils, I don't care. But yeah, this is a way that you can change... Well, you can see an immediate change in your life.

And the problem is too, is, you know, when, when do you know that that water is boiling and it's done? You don't know that until that alarm goes off, right? You know, it's like, it's like maybe that's too late.

Hey. Well, that's the thing. Is like, some instances, part of the issue is, you know, it's like I always give my dog as an example. I'm sure everyone has it like, you know, my dog when you're vacuuming, like it hates the vacuum. It barks at it, tries to bite it. But when the vacuum is off, it's sitting there against the wall in plain view of the [expletive] dog. The dog doesn't do [expletive] until when? Until it's loud and it's on and it's in there. So, it is like that. That's how we handle these situations. Like, "Hey dude, the vacuum's right there, you want to do something about it now?" It seems fine. It's like, what's the term?

What would we do, you know?

So, what would we do on a coin-operated counter-insurgency? What would we do if we were terrorists? What would we do if we were good criminals? We would probe. We would probe before we go, "Listen, if you're working in or around a synagogue." I read a great article this morning by a guy that said, "Hey, these pre-event indications." Yeah, one of them is probing. Probing to see what security is like. So, why don't you flip that coin, pun intended, on its ear and go in and go, "What's on your heart today, man? Hey, how are you feeling? Yeah, you haven't been the same today. What's going on in your life?" And you know what? If the person goes, "Now, I just got a jock rash and, you know, the gym, I'm working it too hard, whatever." Okay, that's fine. But Brian, you'll never know unless you throw that rock in the pond and test with that environment. So, sometimes you're going to see that person that's going to walk by and they look like they're in stress. Walking over to the person going, "Hey, I don't want to bug you, but you look like you're upset. Is there something I can help with?" Brian, it might be the sentence that changes the life, and it might save a whole bunch of other lives. Because maybe if one of those serial killers, or one of the school shooters, or somebody else, would have had somebody in her life... You didn't see even Crumbly walk into a police station and say, "It's on [expletive]." You didn't see that, did you?

Exactly.

He went to a school and victimized people to make himself feel different. So, this... this is one of my favorite episodes based on the fact that we don't ever break down what we mean by... yeah.

And, and you know, we should, we could do more of those in the future. So, I think that that, that was a good mind. I did want to get out there, like I said, I was like, I was surprised we haven't done one specifically on this because that is, we use it all the time, constantly. So, so now everyone, you're listening, we, you hopefully have a full understanding of what stoics that talked about it. Still so stupid, man. Should we... they got a great, great new book. Should we start a podcast on Stoicism, Greg? Yeah, and just dead air won't be on. Yeah, I'm trying to say one word and then everyone would sit around and think about it.

All right, well thanks everyone. Don't forget we, we have the Patreon site. We got all kinds of extra stuff on there. We put in episode extras, video breakdowns, different lesson stuff on there. You can find the link in the episode details. Check us out on there. It's only a few bucks a month that helps support the show and the more people we have, the more stuff we can do on there. So, please reach out to us always if you have any questions or stuff, leftofgreg@gmail.com. All the really good, great questions that people have been sending in, please continue to do that. We typically, if it's something specific, we answer all that stuff on the Patreon site, and we'll just go through the Q&A from different episodes. And anyone that says, we'll answer it on there, or we might do an entire podcast on it, like our buddy out in California who's always sending me the most amazing questions. But if it's personal, we send personal answers too.

Folks, we sit down and we answer every email that's, you know, not hate mail, which is all directed at me and my jacket, of course. Sometimes it's a hat, Brian, sometimes it's the hat. So sometimes it's ice fishing and you know what happens then. Are you then... then come the [expletive]? Exactly. That's when the hookers come.

Yeah. So, everyone, thanks again for tuning in. Please, if you enjoy it, tell a friend about it, send the episode over to them. Get some more people listening. We would very much appreciate that. Leave a comment or a review down at the bottom. If you like it, tell us why. If you don't like us, tell us why. Go on. And we'll let you have your say. So, we appreciate everyone for tuning in. Thanks again and don't forget that training changes behavior.