L.O.G. 114 Urban Legends and our brain chemistry

Hello and welcome to the video version of The Human Behavior Podcast. I'm Brian Marren, the host and creator of the show. As always, I will be joined by human behavior expert Mr. Greg Williams, who the show is affectionately named after. On the show, we discuss different topics through the lenses of what we call human behavior pattern recognition analysis. If you'd like to find out more about what that is, please check the links in the episode details and go to our website to learn more. Please don't forget to follow us on social media; the links are also in the episode details. Hit the like and subscribe button to help support our work. Thanks for tuning in, and we hope you enjoy the show. So, let me know it's on, baby! So, we're going live. So, let's just go ahead and jump in.

Today's episode, for those of you listening, thanks for tuning in. Like we usually say, follow me on Facebook, and you can hop in when we're going live. But today, we're kind of discussing urban legends and our brain chemistry, and what that means. It was kind of inspired by a couple of things. So, one, we recently had a conversation—if anyone listening has heard the podcast with Chris Engladu from across the pond in the UK—and he talked about color vision, and where these color vision tests came from, and a whole bunch of different things. But he traced some of this back to a train accident in like the 1800s, where posthumously, the investigators decided that the train conductor, who ran some warning lights and didn't slow down and stop in time, did that because he was actually colorblind. Now, they had no way of knowing this, verifying this, or finding this out. There was no—there's no autopsy measure in the 1800s that determined you were colorblind after the fact. But that's where it came from.

So, go into it. Go ahead and go one step deeper into that, Brian. There was no document whatsoever stating that that may have been a likely conclusion. There was no autopsy protocol. There was no document that the guy wrote, going, "I'll be damned, I can't see these colors." It was all—it was all made up.

So, other than the crash, yeah. So that, then you fast forward a couple hundred years, and now it affected Chris and his job and getting, passing a vision test to be part of his unit in, on the police force. So, you're like, "Yes, sometimes this is where these things come from," which is a good point to remember when we're talking about today and where these things actually come from and how stories grow and how it changes over time, because we're talking about some urban legends and different acts.

So, that specific train one kind of reminded me of the email that you had sent me not long ago about some show about the siege and a Kentucky farm and this other thing about a conductor who haunts these forests. And, yep, and there's a bunch of different examples that we can get into. But a lot of these things did end up becoming what we call urban legends. Or, you know, there's a story of something that happened, and those stories get passed down to different generations and shared, and then it starts to become fact or what people think is fact. And then it takes someone to go back and investigate it and go, "Wait, wait, what? Take a look at what's going on here. This actually started with a case way back here, and then the change in the story became this, and then that story lives on forever."

And that happens with everything. That happens with quotes, or a big one, when misattributed quotes to people, or the meaning of something someone says, changes over time. There's a great book on that called Hemingway Didn't Say That, if anyone's interested. But this guy, the guy who wrote that—I forget his name—actually goes into almost ridiculous detail in showing how these things morph and change over time. It's an incredibly well-researched book. But it gets into—we're going to kind of talk about it too—is why these things happen, and what our, how our brain chemistry works for that.

So, Greg, I'll kind of throw to you. Kind of kick us off on, on, and put some, put four corners on the document here about what we're going to be discussing.

So, I would say if we were 600 years ago, you and I would call these fairy tales, and these fables would have a tumultuous point where after that, we learn a lesson, and they say, "Okay, so here's the lesson of this fable." And then everybody that was anywhere near that would go back 600 years ago and go, "Oh my God, I remember that guy! Oh yeah, Hamelin. That village is right down the road," or the, you know, "Boy Who Cried Wolf. That was Johnny Ray's son." The problem is none of that crap is true. It's invented in somebody's writings, or somebody's dreams, or a theory, or a script for a movie. And it's real enough, and then the story becomes the reality. And so, I think, Brian, the question would be, "Why does our brain chemistry get to choose the hoax, the fake, the job?"

Yeah, the fable. That's the overall thing: why do we—why do we glam onto fiction rather than facts? Why do we want that story? Why does it, because, because we're wired that way. It happens so much. It's not this is some one-off thing, or when people get on, like, "Oh, it's just really, you know, dumb, uneducated people who think this stuff." No, no, sorry, sorry, I don't think so. This affects everyone. So, why is it? And that's kind of what I want to at least get into the first part of it before we even dive into some of the stupidity.

Is that your brain's chemistry loves the great story. And if you could hook yourself up to the fMRI hood, you would know immediately the parts of the brain that broke high, the ganglia that are just jumping out and dancing when you hear that. Okay, so if we couple that with the dopamine, cortisol that come along with the good story, your brain craves that. Like driving by and seeing a big billboard on the side of the road with a mouth-watering meal, that triggers your brain's chemistry and you get excited about that. Well, that starts with the story. And then the other thing is we have confirmation bias. Now, those three things alone, confirmation bias, will actively seek out those types of stories that side with the opinion that we made up in our own mind to be able to sleep at night. Right? So, what happens is that creates the perfect storm of brain chemistry that says, "Wow, this is feel-good!" And I bring out the popcorn and I start eating the popcorn. And when I hear somebody else tell the story, guess what, Brian? That brain chemistry pops again. So, I get a—I get a benefit, I get a reward each time somebody tells that story or I see a piece of that story even remotely on television.

Yeah, and this goes into, I want to bring up a couple of specific examples, and the one you brought up because it goes to the train one that Chris was talking about, which way. So, I want to hit that before I get into other ones I want to discuss. So, tell us the one about the train conductor haunting the forest or something that you saw recently, because it's a great example.

And remember, everything is linked to something else, and I'll give you an example of that. So, let's go back to the East Coast where these people say, "Hey, listen, we're seeing these mysterious lights in the woods." And so, the investigation goes and says what it is. Now, remember, this is the reality, not that it could be something else. The reality is it's the ghost of a conductor on a train that forgot to light his lantern and was hit by a train. So, forever in perpetuity, he's walking through the woods with this lantern, this ghost, and randomly people see him. So, no other train conductor has reported it, which means it's kind of a shitty ghost. But random people over time have reported it. And so, they bring in a guy, and the guy's a doctor, and the guy looks at the situation. He goes, "Yeah, you see that road through the trees? When anything from a carriage to a motor vehicle comes through with their lights on, it reflects and refracts and reflects through the fog in the trees, and you see the lights, and that's what it is."

And it would appear to be moving too, because it is certainly.

And swinging back and forth, right? So, the people rather believed in the ghost. They said, "There's more evidence to prove that it was this ghost of this conductor that got hit by the train than the science in the distance." And Brian, you'll remember, like a year or two ago, we were in a rental sled, and we were talking about the lights coming off of Chicago, and how sometimes in Holland, Michigan, you could see those lights. And the people were reporting, "Oh my God, look at the, you know, look at this storm coming in, or it's UFOs, or something." And all it was is the lake effect light because of the curve of the Earth. So, they were willing, Brian, to put all their eggs in the basket of the ghost, you know, because he got hit by the train, although nobody can confirm that report, rather than science, which it was lights coming through the damn trees.

Well, part of that is, you know, we talk about explanatory storylines all the time on here, is that we, we're making order out of chaos. It has to be this. Someone tells a sensational story that sounds good, and then now we can attribute it to that. And it's oftentimes once we've bought into a belief, once we bought into an explanation, it's very, very, very difficult for us to go back and change that. I mean, just psychologically, right? It is difficult sociologically for us to go back and say, "Oh, damn, you know, Bill was wrong about that story, and it's actually something much simpler." So, it is difficult to do that, I don't care what that story is.

But the other thing about the whole explanatory storyline—explanatory storylines, Greg—is that, you know, most people, we want an answer. We want an explanation for something. Yes. So, if something isn't readily available, we will make it up, or we'll attribute it. You know, like, I always get all these—this happens with everything that's going on—daily conversations with my wife where she's like, "Oh, well, talking about maybe one of her friends or a situation or something she saw or this." She's like, "Well, I think it's probably this." And I was like, "Oh, well, I don't know." She'll run it past me like to get my opinion. I'll go, "Well, I don't know." And then she's like, "Well, that does not sit well." I go, "Well, here's what you do know: that person said this and behaved this way. So, there's a number of reasons why, but I don't know what those are. That could be personal, that could be professional, that could be financial. They could have something going on in their life that you have no idea about. But I—I don't really have enough to go on here." She's like, "Well, no, isn't it obvious that it's this?" And I'm like, "No, no, babe, like, I don't know."

And but virtually nothing's obvious. But claiming that ignorance is tough, because we all do want an answer. We want to know why. So, I think it's important to highlight that, and anyone can fall into that trap of, "Well, hey, that's a pretty good story," or, "That's the only evidence I have right now for something, for an explanation, so let's go with that." And it's like, "Well, okay, so that's—that's just general broad terms."

But, you know, you talk about the lantern in the woods of the person haunting. So, sometimes there is—there is some nugget of truth, or it started somewhere where something actually occurred and then grows. And one of the great examples throughout, you know, for decades, is the, you know, when they talk about the high school kids who were murdered, they were making out or having sex in the car at this certain area of the woods—point, point, or make-out lane, or yeah, overlooking, whatever. And then, you know, this place Brian never went. Little bearded Brian. Brian had a full beard in high school, and the women were afraid of what might be in that beard, folks. The beard might be grabby. No one wants to make out with you on the railroad tracks after drinking a pack of Bush Light. You know?

But, listen, but the point on that specific story is that there, there, you know, was some incident somewhere in where that occurred, where someone was, you know, murdered in that situation. And therefore that story grew, and the urban legend grew. But it's also used, you know, those stories are taken advantage of by people in those communities or towns, or those parents to tell their kids, "Hey, look what happened to Billy and Susie! They were out there!" Because of the story. But the idea was, they're sitting there, they don't want their kids, you know, they don't want their daughter and son, you know, having children at 16 or getting pregnant when they're in high school.

Bringing another STD into the house. Yeah, let's turn another one. That's a good way to use those stories to your advantage. And that's where it starts to grow. I think before I use logic to tear up the lantern story, I want to go back to something you said that was priceless. And folks, if you're watching us or listening to us, one of the things that we pride ourselves on is blinding you with science. And so, our standard is always psychological, sociological, physiological. And Brian, you were talking about that, and you said, "Well, the psychological effects." Well, okay. So, psychologically, confirmation bias is a strong lure. Sociologically, groupthink is even stronger. So, now, if somebody, especially one of your esteemed colleagues, or a friend, or a neighbor, or in this instance, your parents tell you it's true, do you get what I'm trying to say? I'm not going to blow it for everybody about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but I would look that up if your kids are watching. Don't—don't say that, Brian. Wait.

And then physiologically? Are you telling me we're going to have to break at the break? We need to go in the closet there, Uncle Paul. I got to tell you something.

And then physiologically, Brian, physiologically is the brain's chemistry. The brain's chemistry backs up stuff because we want to repeat behaviors so that we don't have a lot of time to go through a file folder. So, the chemistry brings up those behaviors.

So, what do you mean? Just elaborate real quick, like, what do you mean by, like, when you say that brain's chemistry wants us to do that? What are the reasons for? What do you mean by that chemistry?

Chemistry. We would rather be happy than depressed. We would rather have a full belly than an empty stomach. We would rather be making love than searching for somebody to make love with. So, the brain has a system of rewards, and those are through electrochemical neurochemistry that comes into your brain. And what happens is you get, you know, catecholamines or dopamines or epinephrine. You get certain reward drugs that make you feel euphoric. And any time that you're just walking around at homeostasis with no drugs, what do you think you want? You want those drugs.

Yeah. So, to keep you away from—I'm well aware of that feeling.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are. You to keep you away from rotting flesh, especially when we talk about the STDs on Lover's Point, Lover's Knob, whatever it was called in your neighborhood. So, the idea in Chicago, the idea is that when you look at that, Brian, the danger, "Warning, Will Robinson!" chemistry is there too. So, when you get scared, you don't want to get scared again. So, walking up to the door where you got scared, you're going to start getting the wet palms, and you're going to start, yeah, an episode of cortisol. My amount of saliva goes away, and your brain is going to go, "Wait a minute, we know that. Holy, that's fear! There's something behind this door." Do you get what I'm trying to say? So, these drugs try to amp us up physiologically to prepare us for likely situations of fight, flight, flee rather, or fornicate, feed. You see? So, all of them are present all the time, and that's a vast oversimplification, folks, but come to the course, you'll learn more. Do your damn homework, because it's on there.

So, if we just do the standard psychological, sociological, physiological, right? Then we apply it to the baseline logic. So, your original admonition about the red and blue, or the red and green colorblind guy that caused a train crash, where there's no evidence whatsoever except for posthumous evidence, which is easy because you have no witnesses. Now, let's go to my lantern case. The people that reported seeing the lantern were never a railroad guy, even though there was a railroad in the area, right? And modern railroads, and all the way back to the very first rail lines, had lights, get it? So, the idea was if this guy, his ghost came back just to warn conductors to light your lantern, he's done a crappy job because he's not appealing to ghosts. And why would it be limited to Dicksville Notch, this little town, do you get what I'm saying, in northern Macedonia? Why wouldn't it be in every place that's got a train station? You get what I'm saying? So, logic alone would tell you it's unlikely. Can I throw another logic puzzle at you?

Sure, throw it through and throw it. Put another loop in that Gordian knot there, shall we? Shall we?

Wait a minute. Hey, we've got a whole episode on that son of a guy.

Yeah, we're going to want to talk about that and Occam's razor, because I swear that's one that we just need to sit down and deconstruct.

Yeah, we do. So, I'm watching these, folks, I do a lot of typing, we do a lot of Zoom calls, all that stuff. I have to be active all the time. I'm like a cat with a ball of yarn. If there's not something going on in the house, I'll turn the damn blender on just for the noise. So, the TVs in the back got going and everything, and the only shows that are on during the day when you're home are game shows, which, you know, when you ask, "What color is blue?" you get bored with that. And then the other one is these ghost shows, right? And so, all of a sudden, this guy, and this is this year or last year, is off the coast of North Carolina on a vehicle ferry, and he's got his shoe phone out, and he sees lights off in the distance and he can't account for the lights. Now, what they are, folks, just to give you the end of the story first: it's North Carolina, there's plenty of naval stuff going on. And this is a mission where they're doing some sort of marine mission off coast, and they're using aerial flares. And an aerial flare is the brightest air.

Yeah, and it hangs, baby.

And it hangs. And then when it burns out, they've already got it planned, so the next one will open up virtually at the same spot and hang. Why? Because you want consistent light on the battle so you can see everything that's going on. So, that's clearly what it is. They go from this guy with the shoe phone, and the first thing he goes, "There's no explanation for that." Okay, that puts it in your mind that there is no explanation, it's inexplicable. His wife, who's also filming, goes, "You better ask the captain! Ask somebody!" Now, she's got a sense of urgency in her voice. I'm getting amped up. You at home right now, because we're amped up, you're getting amped up on it. And she starts going, "Does anybody know what that is?" Again, it's inexplicable. So, now, while they're looking at it, they switch very quickly because it's a television show, and they've got an expert in cryptozoology. So, "I'm an expert in the history of an animal that never existed." Okay, so write that down because I want to be a doctor in that. Right? So, the doctor immediately, Brian, looks and goes, "It's almost as if this alien presence is watching the people on the ship." It's almost plausible if you buy into the fact that they are alien and they are intellectual, but they're not. So, Brian, all it has to be to become an urban legend is close enough and cognitively close enough. It was. And everybody on that gosh-damn ship was taking pictures now with their phones, swearing that those lights were moving to watch them because their ferry was the most important ship on the ocean, apparently.

No, and that gets into it. I mean, you talked about confirmation bias and groupthink and all these things that happen. But the other thing is how we talk about just our own, our own personal ego. Every human thinks, you know, we all think we're at some level of importance, and that, you know, we really matter, right? But that does play into it, right? And it plays into it because then it kind of validates, "Well, of course they would reach out to me. Of course I would be, you know, wow, like, look how important or special I am." And I don't mean that. That's, that's why, that's why scams work, right? That's why the, I saw a funny meme about some of the, you know, someone getting these weird email schemes or scams or something. It's like, you know, they maybe they're just reaching too far instead of asking me for my social security number because they have millions of dollars. Like, if they just said, "Hey, we have this free pizza, give us your social," I probably would do it. You know what I mean?

That's funny. The idea is that's what it—that's another thing that plays into besides the groupthink and confirmation bias and all those things. It's our own little ego system. We're like, "Well, yeah, why wouldn't—why wouldn't they, you know, why wouldn't some alien life form from, enter some other galaxy, come down and, and, and, you know, they want to get to know me?" It's like, "Well, who the hell are you exactly?"

But listen, folks, every one of you listening to this little snowflake, that's not what Brian means. He's not diminishing your worth. But what he's saying is for this earth-shattering thing to occur right in front of you, witnessed by all these other people and having their phones out, it would have historical perspective, and it just doesn't.

And I don't know if you remember when we were in North Carolina, and I misplaced my credit card, and you kept asking Shelly why she didn't report it stolen. And she said, "That's because the people that stole it were spending less per month than Greg was, so she didn't want to waste all that extra money." But, you know, North Kakalaki (North Carolina), Florida, around the air bases. Pensacola, Brian, I was on NAS Pensacola during the filming of Tropic Thunder and then later, the filming of Battle: Los Angeles. During both of those films, Tropic Thunder, they were firing flares out of the helos (helicopters), and there were fire—what is that, the chaff round, you know what I'm saying, the glitter round that goes out of that. And Battle: Los Angeles, they were doing offshore hits with the flares and all this other stuff. And both of those times, even up in Monterey when we were training in Monterey, the folks onshore wrote in the local paper, "UFO attack off the coast!" "Strange lights in the sky!" when all it would have been is one phone call, do you get what I'm saying, to confirm the fact that, "Yes, units were training." But what does the TV say? "It's an offshore underwater UFO base, and the reason that the military was out there is to fight off the UFOs." You see, there's always a conclusion.

Well, right, and this gets into, I, you know, I want to kind of double back on what we talk about a lot. Excuse me, I've got a cough going this morning.

It started when you started talking about that Lover's Lane, buddy. It got me real nervous. Thank you. Just brought back childhood.

You've got a devil on his shoulder, Brian, and you got a devil on this shoulder. That's the mirror. I was the one in the bushes looking like, "What are they doing? What are they doing there? What are they doing in there?"

But you have to learn, Brian. So, there's nothing wrong. Someone had to teach me. So, he was, that was not a doctor. I found out later.

So, you talked about the psychological, sociological, and physiological. So, you know, we use those buckets or, you know, or categories as a, as almost like a top layer to throw on this thing, "All right, let's break it down in these three different metrics," right? Using these, because all the science and research is there behind them. You can—there's unlimited amounts of information collected on those three areas that you can validate that have been shown throughout time. These are the principles that these stand on, right? And I think that's a good way to look at all of these, right?

And yes, you know, you're looking at a story. So, a story—I don't care if it's a news story or your friend telling you a story or something that you're seeing, witnessing—I like to use those three (psychological, sociological, physiological) to help me kind of clarify, like, the initial lenses, right? So, can I—can I use that for anything, right? Meaning, when I hear one of these or read one of these or hear someone talking, and I say, and I'm buying into it, right? I'm like, "Holy crap, this is an incredible story!" I can say, "Well, psychologically, why do I think—let's—let's just start there. Am I—am I buying into something physiologically? Man, I'm getting real excited about this. My heart rate's up. I'm getting those catecholamines are kicking." Okay, so it's really starting to play to my emotion here, right? And then sociologically, "Well, all my friends think it's true. Everyone else is saying this happened." And I think when you see those start to coalesce and come together, you go, "That's a good point to go, 'Okay, hang on, wait a minute, let's stop right here.'" And I'm starting to pick up, I'm starting to feel or see all these factors in all these different areas. Now, can I then go, "All right, stop. How do I take a step back for a second and kind of determine some of the—some of the likelihood of stories?" I mean, did they really—

Yeah, so you can spend, by the way, another brilliant stroke of genius for Brian, even though he's feeling a little back behind the power curve on that, talk about Lover's Lane. You'll get better, Brian. You'll learn more as you get older. I'm learning. You're married now. Look, you got a whole, a vast field to play with. So, all of a sudden, I would ask our listeners and viewers to just go to their local Walmart, because you're going to see a crime there anyway that you can learn.

Yeah, or gas station.

And buy for 50 cents, buy an ice cube tray. They're blue. Everybody knows them. Sometimes they're white, but mostly they're blue. They've got these little slots in them, you know, they're blue and white. And so, what I want you to do in my Walmart bell, so I want you to go, and I want you to carve the first three spaces on the left and put "Legal, Moral, and Ethical," then tape them off, you know, so you've got the names in them. Then the next one I want you to do, "Strategic, Operational, Tactical." Then I want you to tape it off again, then put "Shoot, Move, Communicate." Then, you know, tape it off and put "Psychological, Sociological, Physiological."

What happens is the greatest events that have ever happened in life are historical perspective or precedent. And so, you can fit them into those things, and the more of those traits that you fill without forcing them—round peg, square hole—you're likely to be more right about it. So, let me give you an issue that has nothing to do with the ghost in the machine here, okay?

And there's a small town, and a small town has, let's say, a police or fire station or library—not to be too specific so that people don't go poked in the eye. And what they're trying to do is build a new facility, Brian. So, the guy that's a legacy that's been there forever has come up with these plans to not only have the facility on the ground floor, but above it, there's going to be apartments. And what's going to happen is the kids from the university that's close by this small, notional town will be able to rent those out, and they can also work in the business downstairs as volunteers. So, it makes sense for everybody psychologically. It makes sense for everybody because the legacy came up with the idea, he drew up the plans, and he's pushing it harder for everybody. Sociologically, the town hasn't had a chance to vote yet, do you get what I'm trying to say? And so, somebody might get their feelings hurt. And certainly the people that already work there aren't going to say anything even though they would be disenfranchised because now the volunteers upstairs would answer calls that the people that have been there forever won't ever make it off of their job site to come in as volunteers. You get what I'm saying? They'll—they'll have this ready team of people. And guess what? Those kids are already getting breaks for their college scholarships and everything.

Well, then let's go to the physiological. You now have the chemistry that says, "I'm getting screwed out of this." You got the chemistry that says, "That sounds like a great idea." You have the chemistry that says, "I've been here longer than all of you, and I know what the answer." Now, logic would dictate, take a step back and look at all the small town agencies that have a library or police station or fire station that are gripped with the same problem, Brian, and I bet there's an answer out there. I bet other people have gone through the legal challenges, do you get what I'm trying to say, or they've gone through the, you know, "Hey, let's get everybody in town to vote," or, "Let's just put a yellow pad up at the post office and vote randomly to see if there's even an urge to build a new station." But what happens, Brian, is those three things are so strong in your body that they now have created a situation, an event, an ongoing thing that you have to pull out of that tailspin or you're going to be pulled in one of those directions: pro, anti, "I don't give a damn, just get out of my way so I can get in the post office." Those three buckets are the center of whatever you're about to do, and you should use them because there'll be a gating mechanism to simplify the problem. "Am I too close to this issue psychologically?" "Do I need to take a step back sociologically? Has somebody done this before, and could I ask them to help me make this tough decision?" "Physiologically, hey, listen, am I too tired? Did I enter into this when I had a couple of drinks in me, and I wasn't thinking clearly?" Do you see how each one of those buckets will contain the 360 of your argument and help you make a more informed decision?

Yeah, and I—I think picking apart any story like that, because the—my—my one of my biggest issues with these things that we call urban legends, or, you know, how they stick around, these stories develop, is like you—you've had, kind of like what you're talking about, dude, policies start to become policies, and laws get written based on junk stories or junk science or shitty eyewitness testimony or something, you know? And because, and because of all of those factors you just brought up, of how we get bought into those things. I mean, you look at, like, I mean, there—there's been so many of these out there where they're kind of like it becomes debunked. You know, you get into, God, with crime stuff, you've got the, "Oh, crack is this horrible, super addictive drug that's ten times worse than regular cocaine." No, it's not. There's zero, zero medical evidence to show that. It just—it just became the problem is it, it went from being easier, cheaper.

Yeah, you had to afford it. You had to afford it. So, there are barriers to entry, and now it's just now it's ten dollars instead of a hundred dollars for that, you know what I mean? It's like, "Well, now you just opened up."

Easy to believe, bro. But with everything, there was another one, the one from like the '80s about this apparent, like, flight attendant, this male, he was gay, and he was like, knew he had HIV and was going around the world and countries spreading it to all these people, and he's like, it became something people thought was true. And it's like that, that, once again, someone was like, "Hey, this is complete junk! Where the hell did this come from?" And then you have stuff like different crime stuff is huge. I mean, you remember, like, in the '80s and '90s, that was your times, like, "We've got these super predator, super criminals coming out!" And you're probably on the street going, "What? This is the same, the same jackass I've busted 37 times!" Like, he keeps getting busted because he's not a super predator, he's not a super criminal. So, now we come up with legislative policies. And that—that's, that's the, that's when it becomes dangerous, right? It goes from our story to when it—when it comes now, "We're going to start, actually, we're going to—we're going to make decisions, we're going to make policy decisions based on this a, a, you know, a ghost conductor in the woods carrying his light." I mean, that's where it gets really, really serious. And that's why it's important to look at, because you look at different news stories that come out, and automatically, like, when I get it, and everyone's like, "Did you hear? Did you see about this?" I go, "All right. One, you're super emotional about it, so think about that for a second." Yep. "Maybe, maybe that story was at the point you just hit physiological, so you're all amped up on the sugar high. Everyone's doing, their friends are talking about." So, you hit—so, you hit sociological, right? And then psychologically, that confirmation bias kicks in. You can look at all these other examples. And so, so, that's how those things can erupt so easily. And just because of electronic communication now and social media, one, it proliferates at an exponential rate, whereas before it would take years to get some a story that popular, months or weeks. Like, now it's minutes, right?

And I think that's important thing to remember when all of these stories. It's like, "Dude, I'm reading a news article. I'm like, this is a junk story. Like, this is like, you're, what the hell are they talking about?" And anything that has to play to your emotion that, that strongly, and, and, and there are stories. So, if it's just stories, they're sticky. They're fun. That's why it's a great way of teaching.

Yeah, it's a great way of teaching because we do the memory-emotion link. And they might as well explain that.

Actually, you know what? That's a good point because you brought up some of the physiology, psychology, and sociology behind it. But, you know, a memory-emotion link, or an emotional memory link, because you referenced it earlier when you talked about going to that area that you were scared before, and your palms are sweaty, and that's the door. And now your brain is getting this fear response. What—what is that when we talk about that? Because a lot of different news articles or urban legends or stories I see on TV, they hit, and they make us recall either past experiences or information we knew. So, can you explain what that is, because you kind of already talked about it a little bit?

Yeah, I sure can. And so, let's go back to Brian that thinks I'm a dinosaur. Dude, I was a card-carrying member of the team up until 2013 December when I finally turned in my badge.

He was a cop back in the '60s and '70s.

No, I said '90s.

Yeah, I know, I know. But that's not even far enough.

No, no, but meaning you were, you were on the ground when those things were happening. It was irrelevant. Yeah, listen, I'm a unique little snowflake. You got—you are with kid. So, one quick thing, Brian, I've never bought a new car, but I know people that have. Yeah, and there's a thing called buyer's remorse. Buyer's remorse is that you just bought this car that was so unique, and you pull it off the lot. And fill in the rest. When you pull it off the lot, what do you see? You see nothing but those, yes, those cars. Yeah. Okay, yeah. But, you know, that's not true. What happens is you're more attuned, you're more aware of that brand and type of car because you spent so much time thinking about it and feeling about it and doing all those other stuff. Well, that then becomes the catalyst for you looking for those. So, I'll give our readers and viewers some homework. Look for a cat while you're driving around, driving to work, driving away from work, while you're paying attention. Look for a cat. Once you find one feral cat, you'll find another. All the feral, right? So, so now, that's one channel. That's another ice cream, or ice cube tray, play with that. It's fun, and it'll increase your awareness. You'll be more acutely aware and not hit the car in front of you.

Second part, memory in emotion. Like the type, like, for example, I want to think of my guidance counselor in high school. I wasn't there very often, but I know they assigned me one because of my name, W. Williams. I had a guy. I remember it was a guy, and I remember kind of where it was in East Detroit High School. Do you get what I'm trying to say? And I kind of remember that it was on the first floor. But I couldn't, if you had a gun in my mouth, I could not mumble this guy's name to tell you because he was meaningless to me. But what he did say is, "Neutral gets you nowhere." He stopped me in the hallway once, and he goes, "Greg, you're just spinning in all these directions. You're going to burn out, son. Neutral gets you nowhere." So, that neutral, you know, instead of being in drive and being focused and just spreading the, you know, the energy, you know, to do that, what did the neutral slam and spin the tires? I was doing that in my life in the hallways, right? So, so, I was still in—I was still in reverse at that point in my life. You're still looking for the exit to that mountain. Where is that Lover's Lane? You know what I'm saying, on your little scooter? Did you have a Vespa?

So, the idea was that this guy said something that has stuck with me, Brian, for, yeah, 50 years, okay? But I couldn't pick up his face or tell you his name or tell you any other indices about him. Why? Because there was an emotion that washed through my body when he said that, and I stopped, and I go, "Wow, I'm—I'm really high on the douchebag scale right now. What am I doing?" Okay. So, when the brain's chemistry glams onto something through fear, through love, through anticipation, do you get what I'm trying to say? Like, like, for example, I remember the—the, I'd never gone to a school dance, but in Cantoner, we went from Pleasantview Elementary to Cantoner Elementary because of bussing in Detroit, things that you had no control over as a little kid. That's how old I am. And before I went to the junior high school, Grant Junior High School, they had a dance at Cantoner. Worst place for a dance is when you're in sixth grade because you—you, you know, accidentally found your penis in this hour (male or female, I'm not trying to make anything, right?). And you're like, not sure exactly what the plumbing's for, but, you know, you spend a lot of time holding it. And then all of a sudden, you're in this environment. You know, "Did anybody else notice it really just got hot in the gym?" And you see that girl walk by, and she's got no shape whatsoever, but you've been thinking about her since fourth grade, and you're in love, and you're, you know, all those emotions, Brian. So, I can tell you some of the people from that Cantoner dance and the class and, I—I can tell you how I felt and that my mouth was dry. I could tell you the punch and what they had for snacks out there.

You can remember those things.

Yeah. So, if the memory—now, remember that your memory is a fickle whore. Yeah, because what your memory has done over the time is every time you've reinvented that and brought that out, you know, or revisited, I should say, and brought that memory out, and you walked it around, you now added stuff from today. Something changed, okay? And you fixed a little bit of it because you don't want to be that embarrassing ass that nobody asked to dance. So, now that cute girl actually went by and said, "Would I," you said, "hair lip," and the next thing you know, you're dancing. So, the idea is that whether the memory is accurate or not, hence the urban legend, you will believe it. And, and so those folks, Brian, in the Kentucky farm that I sent you about, that thought that they were the ones that were fighting off the UFO invasion. To this day, the granddaughter was telling the story at the local museum, right, where that Kentucky town fought off the UFOs. You know, you can't fight it, buddy.

No, and that's—that's a great, your, your dance, you know, middle school dance story is a perfect example of a memory-emotion link, is that when the more emotion you tie to that event, when you're in it, I don't care if, like, you know, it's like, you know, you—you watch a, you know, a funny movie once, and you remember everything. Like, where you start, you know, you're resetting those lines for years afterwards. Why? Because all of that, you can recall that line. Now, it's going to get a little off. It's going to change a little bit. You know, you might—might mess it up just a little, but you can still remember a lot of that, you know, based. And you can't remember anything from conversation you had an hour before that. But the idea is because of that, all of those emotions involved with during that event, where that case, you're laughing, you're getting the dopamine, maybe you're there on a date, all this stuff is happening, it's exciting. So, it basically just kind of, it helps encapsulate and insulate that memory so you can recall it better. But you also brought up that great point from that dance, now if you tried to start writing out the details, you could probably write maybe the layout of that gym, and maybe where the band was set up, and where the food was set up. But you're not like, you can say, "Oh, remember, I ate this and I drank this." Well, all of that might be completely wrong. Like, you know that works when you go back there, you go, "It's so much smaller!"

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. You're like, "Oh, it's this big gym, and we had this." And you walked back in there like, "Jesus, this is tiny! How did we fit a whole bunch of group people in here?" And all those names and those caricatures that you created were people you met along the way, Brian.

Yeah, just people that you met a long way.

So, let me throw this at you because it's funny, it just popped into my head, and you'll be able to say how true this is. First of all, folks, you know that we lost a dear friend, Ray Kurzick, our advisory board member died. So, shout out for him. His good friend, Timmy Ware, is on our advisory board as well. Timmy Ware, former San Diego Charger NFL guy, loving to death. So, Ware hires us, Brian and I, to go out and do a caper in San Diego. And while we're at the caper in San Diego, we're speaking to courts and corrections and schools. Yeah, a whole bunch of folks. And talk about Grant Junior High School before I went to East Detroit High School. Remember, we had no choice in this bussing, you know, moved Detroit around all over the place, and you went where they said you went. You came up with a lottery, and you went. And we were talking in the first break, Brian, that female came up from courts or corrections or a supervisor from somewhere, and she goes, "You went to Grant Junior High School!" And I go, "Yeah, that's right." And she said, "What was your name?" And I go, "I was Greg Williams. What was your name?" And we knew each other. And if you recall for that, what are the chances?

And so, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, remember? Yeah, she brings like a yearbook or something too.

She brought in and showed where we were. And so, I immediately went back to that moment and said, "I must have been Rico Suave! I was so cool!" She remembered me in my bell bottoms and my elevated Earth Shoes and all this other stuff. And do you remember what she said afterwards? She goes, "No, I remember you because you were so loud!" So, here she remembered me to the point that she tells Brian about it and shows him the photo of Grant Junior High School. He was large, you know, right?

Okay, I can't—I forgot about that. Yeah, that was pretty insane. Yeah, that you guys are in the same, same area. Yeah, what are the chances? And here we were in a school gym in San Diego, you know?

So, Brian, our memory is fickle. And we want, chemistry-wise, okay? We want to believe. We want to feel good. And we—we say that one all the time when we talk about different types, and we even talked about the cryptozoology once on that one podcast and how that stuff works. But this is where, you know, we're using the term urban legends in here. But go ahead and apply that to any story you've ever heard or read or seen or watched or whatever and accidentally pick it up on your own. What's the worst thing about a story, Brian?

Yeah, yeah. Well, nothing ruins a story like another witness is what it is. But, but it's like, it's, you know, no, nothing ruins a good war story like another witness. But I—I think that's important to remember because we tie it directly to brain chemistry, and you know, everyone wants to come in and say, "Well, you—you know, you can't be biased, and you have these different implicit biases, and we need to get rid of those, and, you know, or there's this other belief methodology we want you to take where you—you're not going to get emotional over things." Like, "Get the out of here with that!" That doesn't work. Well, like, that's not how it works. This is how we're working.

But, but that's—I'm fat, so I'm just going to think overnight in my dream that I'm not fat, and tomorrow I'll be spelling.

So, so that's the point, is that you can't get around it, but you—you can be aware of it, right? And go, "Okay," and you literally write it out. We, you know, I mean, we yellow pad everything. Yeah, look at it. "Is this starting to hit any of the buckets that we're talking about?" Because you have to—you have to, it's—that's the way you get a, a, you know, as close to unbiased opinion as you can. You still have other influencing factors, you know, of you getting what you're getting at. But that's the whole point, is you just take that step back and write out what that is. And hey, we—we gave you a whole bunch of buckets here, that's the important thing to remember, because you're never going to get around that. Like, you—you can't—you can't take some training that gets rid of your biases. That is completely unscientific. You can help take away some anxiety, okay? You—you can make yourself feel better so you sleep longer, which is going to make you feel better. But the biases that your brain has created are hardwired and soft-wired, Brian, and then chemistry activates them and deactivates them, and they change over time. So, you're not going to tell me that an axon and a dendrite are going to change just because you—you know, say, "Today I feel good, I feel great!" You know, the—the—the, what is that one with Bill Murray? You know, the—the playing "Baby Steps." You know, "Oh my God, what a great film!" So, over time, of course, those help placate or deaden or loosen some of those emotions, but it's just not enough to come in and say, "Well, you know, you have this bias you don't know about, but we're going to fix it because we're going to talk about it." Stop it.

There's a great caper for homework, and of course, because I'm me, I don't remember, but I think it's Ukraine, or a former Soviet Union or whatever. And there's this case from the '50s that everybody, every scientist, has covered. If you've watched the TV show or listened to a radio broadcast, you've heard it. These kids go up, and it's a study group from a local college or whatever, and they go up to find a Big Foot. Now, remember, if you're looking for something, you're going to find it one way or the other, because your brain is going to create the situation. They don't come down, so they send some people up, and all the tents are taken apart and down the hill, and the people have, some of them have their heads ripped open, and some of them are missing limbs and everything else. Now, here's the thing: you take a look at that on your own, and then take a look at the area, and look at the geological charts for the area, and what you'll find out is it was an avalanche. The one thing about being a copper in a bunch of different venues, especially out in a place like Colorado, Brian, is I—I've actually seen what it looks like when a person gets eaten and digested by a bear. Same thing with the cougar, what the cougar attack looks like on a car and a human. And one of the things that I've seen too many times for my own good is death from avalanche. And it's never fun. And Brian, snow is like concrete that's moving, and it's scraping and ripping and moving things. And so, these bodies, clearly the very first time they even showed the black and white photos of the recovered bodies, it was clear two things happened: number one, there was an avalanche. That's what killed the folks and scattered the bodies in that manner. Number two, guess what came in after the body started to thaw? You got coyotes and bears and everything else that mauled on a couple of them, do you get what I'm saying, before the search crew got there. The most logical answer is an avalanche. Since 1950, there have been groups every single year, sometimes many in the same year, to come back and say it was a Big Foot attack. "Big Foot was pissed," and "a family of Big Foot ate these kids." And, you know, that that's now the answer. There's books, Brian, there's 10 or 11 books that have been written about the incident and hundreds of TV shows.

Well, this isn't like, my favorite response is, "Well, you can't prove that that didn't happen." No, yeah, you can. Yeah, you can't.

Right now, somewhere—wait a minute—somewhere in the Ukraine, there's a Big Foot family huddled in front of their computer listening to us going, "It did happen! It didn't happen, you bastards!"

We're now no longer allowed in that country. No, but that—that's the mind is, when you say, "Oh, we can't prove it didn't happen." Yeah, you can't. The complete lack of evidence for something is called, you can prove a negative, right? You can't prove that it doesn't exist if they're—it's harder to prove. I'll give you that. Yeah, look, just saying, "Well, you can't prove that didn't happen," is the worst. That's—that's not an argument, by the way.

And, and by the way, there's the first class they teach you as a defense attorney. Right.

Right. Yeah. "No, it didn't!" "Yes, it did!" "No, it didn't!" "Yes, it did!" So, so, one of the things that's important too, because we—we—we talked about without speaking about it directly, is when we talk about the sociological reasons why some of these things happen, and, and with stories and storytelling, is the, I mean, we've always, the absolute oldest human transfer of knowledge.

Yes, yes.

So, that's how everything occurred, is you had to tell stories around the campfire to warn of the woolly mammoth and the other predators that were out there. And these—

I'd put on the hat. Yeah, you'd grab the broom handle, and we would act out where the hunting ground is, and how are we so good?

And those are—those are—and those are less—that's the point behind those, is those are lessons that those previous generations had learned the hard way. That, "Man, we can't do it that way," or, "Hey, that predator, we actually can't—we haven't figured out how to kill yet, so we need to stay away from it." "Hey, those berries, you can eat these ones, you cannot eat." So, all that had to be learned the hard way, and they have to tell those stories because there wasn't written language, and this is—this even goes around with spoken language is still really being developed too. There were still those stories being told, acted out, just like you said, around that campfire to demonstrate, "This is what you need to worry."

And so, here's the thing. If it's really, really important, who's ever tried to teach something to a kid, you know, whether they're going to pay attention, it could be difficult, right? So, you have to—you have to get their attention, so sometimes sensationalizing that story will help garner their attention.

You're exactly right, Brian. And now if I let my own things, now I just don't want them for my ideological reasons. Well, now I'm going to make up stories and say, "Oh, you can't do that because of this happened!" And that's where they come from. But that's why we are so wired. That's why it's so difficult to—to—to not, to be critical about some of these things, right? To take a look at that urban legend or that eyewitness statement, say, "Hey, maybe that didn't quite happen." We do want to believe because it's in our best interests for the purposes of our survival and the survival of our species to believe that.

Our club. Exactly.

But it—but it really is. I mean, that—that's so—so powerful, which is why, you know, you can't bash it when it does happen. You can't say, "Well, this is misinformation, or that's fake." It's like, look, these things happen for—there's scientific reasons why we buy into these stories like that. It's going to—you so you have to get better yourself at knowing what's likely going on here. What's the most likely? What's the most dangerous? Is this—is this—is, am I just biting into something here that tastes really good, and someone's trying to get me to think a certain way, or is this something that I—that I really need to—to pay attention to? And that's where we break it down scientifically and say, "Hey, look, this is how your decision making is affected. This is how your beliefs are affected. This is how you get roped into these different things." And it's very, very easy to do because you're set up to that. It's what you're designed to do. You're designed to believe that stuff.

I think exactly. One, folks, Brian again hit on something that's amazing. Go through your history. You know that Brian and Shelly and I and Martin and all the team, we also share a relationship because we're all in martial arts at various times in our lives and have received various degrees in various martial arts. And one of the things is, if you take a look at a kata (k-a-t-a), take a look at it, it's a series of ritualized moves that you teach a person to remember each one of the steps in a thing. Why? Because one, it was passed down secretly because if the government knew that you were doing it, they would crack down on it. That's why nunchaku had to be a rice flail, you know, so you could hide the training in it. But the idea was that there wasn't written, and there wasn't a lot of people that had a high degree of college or high school intellect. So, you had to break it down Barney style for those people in the audience, which is exactly what Brian is talking about.

When you go to your kid, you want your kid to understand a gimbal, aerodynamic, gravity, inertia, centripetal and centrifugal force. What am I talking about? Riding a bike. And you're saying, "No, the tricycle. We're moving up to the bicycle," and they're going, "No, right!" And it's a leap of faith as much as it is science, Brian. So, it's okay in that instance. And I would caution you that if somebody from Ukraine is listening—because I know we got North Macedonia, I know we got Japan, I know we got New Zealand and Australia, we got a couple of people in Georgia that finally woke up this morning and figured out how to turn on a computer. But those folks in Ukraine, okay, if you want to bring me to that place where in the '50s those people died—because I know it's a big money maker now, they take a, you know, a horse-drawn wagon out there and they set up your camp, and you hear tree knocks and howls, and you get shit-faced and you get scared. Okay, I'd love to do that because it'd be fun. Look, I'd pay for the trip if I had the money, folks. But if you count me this day, I'll be there tomorrow and talk about it on our next broadcast. It's okay to enjoy Halloween. It's okay to be scared at a haunted house. I'm not saying I'm against it, but I'm saying at the end of the day, I'm not buying into it, do you get what I'm saying? I know that there's a science behind it, or a math, or a logic, and that makes me feel good.

Yeah, and to—to, that's a good way to kind of—kind of wrap up what happens with those stories. And that's why fairy tales, that's why, I mean, why do there's, you know, I don't know how many stories or articles or books or, you know, different publishing sites are created on a daily basis now in 2021. But it's only increased exponentially since, you know, written language has been around. Well, why? Because it speaks to us. It speaks to everything, our whole existence and who we are. Like, those stories, because it's—a lot of them are the same. There's—there's archetypes in these stories, right? There's—there's typical characters you see across the board in all of them, in all of them. And so, why? Because there's only—there's only so many different types of people out there. There's a finite number. As unique as we think we each are, we kind of all fall into these different buckets. And that's why those stories can be retold and repackaged and redone. And all I got to do is, "Okay, instead of this, it's going to go left this time, and then the guy's going to take a right, and that's going to open up a whole new thing." But, but even though that whole new adventure, it's, you know, Indiana Jones is the same movie every single time, right?

It is the same, and I watch every one of them. China. There's versions in India. But, listen, that's why I want you to leave my flipping Mr. Potato Head alone, because now it's just Potato Head. That's why I want you to leave Dr. Seuss alone. Listen, you think that you're the intellectual elite, and all you are is intellectual bullies because—

Well, there's that too.

Just fine with metal roller skates. And I, you know what? Shelly and I have a common memory. Both of us had a shoelace with our roller skate key around our neck. My house, my roller skate key, we're on there. And people, if you know who I'm talking about, you know what it is, you know how big it was, you know it was metal, you know it had that little hexagonal thing on the end. Brian, it's okay to have those memories. And right now what we want to do is put a pillow on the ass of the next generation and say, "Well, this is more important than that." If you want something that's more important than something else, take your kid's computer or their Game Boy or whatever the hell that they're looking at right now and put it away for a month. Okay? Take their phone away and put it away for a week and give them a flipping potato and say, "Carve," because what's going to happen is they'll come up with a Mr. Potato Head, or Mrs. Potato Head, the luggage, the family, the hats. And Brian, they'll have a ball. There's no app for that. They'll have a ball. We've gone too far. And what's the thing to embrace about urban legend is storytelling. Yeah, how amazing and wonderful storytelling is. And when your kids are sitting on the ground and they're playing with two sticks and having a little family thing, that's the most important time. Sit down next to him, grab a stick, and play. I truly believe that.

No, that—that's—I—I think that's sage advice. You know, I try to—try to do that all the time with the—with the insurgent (my daughter) just for, I forget that how fast she learns sometimes, and I also forget sometimes what I'm teaching her. And I have to go back, "Wait a minute, hang on. Hey, that's just something for in the house that we—"

Right there. Drill a nice drill.

Don't—don't do that. Don't do that with any of your friends. I want some sense. "I teach you how to co-op people into getting more treats from mommy." I was like, "Nah, this is how you got to do it." Then I'm going like, "Oh, Jesus, I can't teach her this skill set. This is horrible! What am I doing?"

It's okay. Kids are resilient. Kids are going to learn.

Well, they—they absolutely are. And that they're mostly from, guess what, their environment. So, it plays a major factor. But, no, no, I think this is kind of—we hit a whole bunch of different points that I think are really important, and some buckets and some—some kind of ways to, you know, "How do I clarify? How do I make the, you know, it's—there's a lot of turbidity, I guess, in some of this, you know?" And so, if I can help classify these things into different areas, like we talk about psychological, sociological, physiological, how they affect me. And is this story or whatever that I'm reading or listening to, if it's starting to evoke a lot of those emotions, then maybe it's just high on the emotional scale and low on the—low on the fact scale, low on the actual details, right? Because you know that, I mean, when you, especially anyone listening, read, you know, technical reports and things like that, like, it's dry and it's boring. Why? Because it's supposed to be, sorry. Like, you have to prove every word you say in there. So, guess what? It's going to be super boring and referenced in footnotes and this. But a great story about something that happened, you don't need any of that stuff.

So, so, you said turbidity. Just for our listeners and our viewers and our readers, excellent word. The idea is what Brian's talking about is dissonance. So, cognitive dissonance is essential because the mirage is just a mirage. But once you learn the science behind it, you won't get fooled by it. So, dissonance is a learning function as well. So, so, having that—that turbidity, as long as it's not legal or moral turbidity, do you get what I'm saying? As long as it's not ethical turbidity. Like, like, you're advancing the—the tiny insurgent's training to a level where she's already a teenager or a young adult. But you're not sitting there teaching her that the—the red wagon in the yard is a dog. Forget the car that went by is a banana. So, she's just messed up like a football bat when she grows up.

I really do. I only do that with other people's kids.

Yeah, I do that. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that's incumbent upon you as a father. I do that with my buddy's friends just to see where that's going to—"Let's teach you a new word that doesn't make sense and see if you use it later with your parents." It's been wonderful.

All right. I think that we—we kind of hit on a lot with the—with the urban legends and how it really, really plays to our reward system, our brain chemistry, and we really want to believe and we want to buy into that stuff. And that's—that's okay. That—that's what makes us human. All right? So, so, you're going to buy into that stuff, but and, and you—you should for the—especially for the purposes of entertainment. Right? I want to buy into it at least, you know what I mean? Well, the same thing. Like, I don't sit there and watch a movie, go, "Well, that's not how it really works." And let me—that's the point.

Well, then get—then you're not having fun. I mean, don't just enjoy it. Suspend your belief.

But if you're going to suspend disbelief—it's called the clicker. No. Well, that's the thing. If you're going to suspend disbelief, know when you're suspending disbelief, of course. Know when you're doing that, right? So, so, I don't—I don't know. I—I think we—we kind of covered a lot but gave some decent examples.

Well, here's a—I don't know, I—I thought it was, yeah, we both thought it was great, and so did our two viewers. Okay? So, my thing is this, the first word starts with an "F" and ends with "ing," and there's a "C" and a "K" in it. But if you say that word first and then add Newman at the end of it, our good friend RP (Gunny of Arabia), okay, he can print a comic and say, "What do you think?" and get 1.1 million views on LinkedIn. We do this breakdown of urban legends, we spend an hour together, and four people, two of which are you and I, you get what I'm saying, will comment, go, "Great episode."

All right, on that note, I think we'll wrap for today. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. Don't forget, give us some—some likes and some shares if you enjoyed it. Please share it with your friends. We're going to have more coming up. Obviously, follow us on social media. I'm always dropping stuff on—on Instagram, especially too. It seems to be doing well, people like it. So, you can find out a little bit more about some of the science behind this. I kind of dropped some little nuggets on there, as Greg would say, every once in a while, with plenty of examples. So, please stay tuned, stay in touch, and like it, share it, and don't forget that training changes behavior.