L.O.G. 107 Training Youre Doing It Wrong

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All right. We are on Facebook Live for those of you just tuning in to the audio podcast, but Greg and I are going to be talking about something that we've had multiple conversations about. Greg and I have gone back and forth on a few things in terms of just training in general, and police reform and training reform, and what it actually looks like.

We always take a human behavior approach, and one of the things that I see out there a lot is there's a lot of sexy, whiz-bang, cool moto videos of some of the greatest training that's come a very, very long way just in the 20 years of experience that I can speak to – which Greg has twice that – it has come a long way. And it's some of the most amazing, best training that will pretty much do not a [expletive] thing for you as far as I'm concerned.

The problem that I've been having with this is we keep doing this over and over again, and none of the issues and none of the real problems ever get addressed or go away or get dealt with. My issue with it is where we come from is we need to be training about critical thinking skill sets, and that's not being done. I know people think it's being done on a flat range with all your cool gear, but it's not. It's just simply not. You're not replicating any type of real event, and you're training for something that is statistically insignificant, meaning it's so unlikely that you're going to be in that situation that you shouldn't spend that much time training for it.

Now, you might be inundated with that on your Facebook feed or your Instagram feed or on the news, but just because something's on the news doesn't mean that's what's happening all the time, and that's the problem. The idea with a lot of that training is you don't have to go into that much depth. I think there's a set of core competencies involved in all training that people need to go through, and if we get really, really, really, really good at those core competencies, then all of that other stuff you can layer in on top of, and actually, you won't have to spend as much time in getting proper procedures of A, B, C, or D. You won't have to spend as much time going over, "Hey, here's our insider threat computer cybersecurity awareness training. Hey, here's our insider threat sexual harassment training. Hey, here's our legal, moral, and ethical training." All of that stuff that you have to do can, and that becomes "check in the box," and people listening know exactly what I'm talking about because most of it's [expletive] and you get a four-hour PowerPoint on how to change a tire rather than going out to the parking lot and changing a damn tire.

So that's what I'm talking about. But all of those competencies can be addressed and don't need as much time spent if you're really, really good at that core set of competencies. I think that's where our bread and butter is, Greg, in teaching those core competencies, because it involves human behavior, and anything touched or influenced by a human means you need human behavior training to understand it. I kind of want to start off with that because I'm just tired of seeing the same old crap over and over again.

And this time, let's rant for a minute, Brian. We don't ever really do that because we have a clear message we're trying to get across, but at this point, I think the only way for us to cut above the [expletive] noise is to really lay it out there. The problem is, all of these people that are doing this training are really, really good at what they do, and they're right. Meaning what you're training and teaching on that range about your high-speed stuff, yeah, it's [expletive] incredible. It absolutely is, and I'm not going to argue with that or say you're bad at it or anything.

What I'm telling you is, if you turn every training scenario into a shoot/no-shoot scenario, guess what your whole [expletive] life becomes? It's a shoot/no-shoot. And I'm sorry to break it to you, but the world is slightly more complicated than that. You operate in a gray area. Throw black and white out the window. There are very few situations where it's, "Well, it's black and white and it's easy." Okay, but those are so easy you don't need to train for them because it's so flipping obvious, right?

The reason why I get so upset about this stuff is because everyone keeps continuing to make the same mistakes over and over. Look, there's always—right now, Greg, just look at your experience—the body armor that someone gets is better today than it was 10 years ago. It was better 10 years ago than it was 10 years before that. 10 years before that, it was better 10 years ago before that. So that stuff is constantly improving: your gear, your equipment, your weapons, your whiz-bang lasers and flashlights and all those optics and stuff are constantly improving. Guess what isn't improving, though? Everything else, because we still make the same mistakes. People are still getting themselves in the trick bag. Guys and girls are doing stuff that's wrong or causing issues that have second and third order effects that they're not understanding. It's not because they're stupid and don't know what they're doing, right? It's because no one's teaching people how to operate, how your tactical decisions have an operational strategy, operational certainty, and a strategic unknown. The fact that you walking up because someone ran through a red light and you're going to contact them, that leads to a city burning. Yeah, it does. It [expletive] does, and it can be avoided. All of that can be avoided, right?

It's the gift of time and distance, and we don't do that. I just saw another one this morning of some sort of pursuit. It was at this point low speed, crashed into one vehicle, and there's another police officer trying to rip the door open and pointing a gun at a moving vehicle. And I'm not bashing that person, I'm bashing the [expletive] training that we're not focusing on. So shout out, Greg, I don't know, I know we had a different plan to start this, but immediately welcome to the party. I got really, really angry, and I'm not usually this angry this early in the morning, but...

But I think maybe you should tighten that shot group. Well, here's the thing, I want everybody to know this is the only unscientific thing that I'm going to say all day: I do not judge my subject matter expertise on experience merely on my weight, so just by sheer weight, I outrank you, Brian, and many, many people that are listening.

Now, you have a valid point.

But what I want to make sure that we understand first of all, you hit on core competencies, and you talked about training reform. I would add to that, leadership reform. I'm taking notes as you're talking. One, muscle memory isn't critical thinking and will never replace it. And with your, "Every tactical decision creates an operational certainty," let's just break that in half, "and a strategic unknown," the second half. That means that all the amazing tactical training in the world will not increase your survivability one iota as much as the equal measure of increased critical thinking training. In other words, the training for the real event has to have the brain training component, the human behavior component, not merely recitation of TTPs (Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures). Right?

If you have a channel, a lane that is called the IED (Improvised Explosive Device) lane, and at the end of it there's an IED, you're not doing yourself any favors, Brian. So I'm seeing guys do magic on—I spend so little time on the internet, I have to tell you, aside from that certain site, the pay site—but we won't talk about that.

Because I'm your OnlyFans account.

Exactly. So the idea, though, Brian, is that I spend very precious little time, but people are always sending me videos and outtakes of videos and saying, "What do you think? Speculate on that, fat man." And I'll tell you this, okay? So Wisconsin just got the news that the officer-involved shooting that left a young man paralyzed, they're not going to prosecute the cops.

Well, first of all, let's take that out of your lexicon so the Southern Poverty Law Center will come in and say the whole reason that they're not doing it because it was racist, racist, racist, hidden racism, secret racism, whatever it is. Okay, stop for a minute. Okay, that could be true. Let's put that on the show. That could be right.

Let's not take it off the table. Yeah, I'm not—I'm not criticizing. Just saying...

No, no, don't lead with that. That's like a boxer leading with the knockout punch. It's not going to end the fight. Do you see what I'm saying? The other guy's going to go, "Oh, thank you for that." And so what I want to do is, let's back up to the science. I saw the video from a number of different vantage points over and over and over and over.

Number one rule—rule number one rule of human behavior, Brian: If you have time to film it, you have time to prevent it.

Yep.

So shut up. That's the first thing, right? First rule. Second rule is your optic nerve, your visual field—it encompasses the entire back of your head. God, Buddha, Vishnu, Allah, set you up so you could see in low light, no light, that you could see in color so you could find the things that you want to breed with and find the things that you want to eat. And here, all of a sudden, we have a person that's allegedly reaching for a knife. Well, where do you think your focus goes when you only have such a small visual field, such a small fovea centralis, such a small processing center to pixelate images for your brain? You go to the largest threat.

So whether or not it was a knife, the cop saw a knife. And when that cop saw the knife and his crappy nine millimeter was in his hand, his brain said, "There's your threat. We're going to shoot at the threat." And that's why there was a high volume of fire at an area that disabled the person for the rest of his life, but didn't kill him. Had the muscle memory training taken over—which it didn't, it wasn't good enough—the emotion-based training took over. Do you understand? And the emotion-based training you were born with.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's not the anxiety...

That's why because there was no emotion-based training.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. So you're supposed to retreat and take cover. The officer ran and fired. Start thinking about that when you look at that. That's where the training reform comes from, Brian. The idea that a GPS (Global Positioning System) is going to get us out of the shitty situation that we're in is a lie. The idea that you can be prepared to survive the apocalypse—and this is as close to what I was predicting about a dome pocket we'll ever get in America in our lifetime, right? You have to live to use all that what you call whiz-bang stuff. So that double-barrel semi-auto shotgun with a right and left eject with the aim points, all of that horse crap is predicated on the fact that you wore your mask and you didn't get infected by your shitty neighbor, and you're not dead now or sick. Because you can't defend when you're dead or sick, Brian. You just can't, you know?

So I'm with you, and I think the thing that gripes me the most, Brian, is when I see these people that are doing this—look, you have a better chance of eating right, which is free, by the way, working out, which is free, by the way, learning CPR (Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation), how to use the Heimlich, basic first aid, stopping bleeding. I would invest in those things, and nobody's listening. Brian, we teach the simplest form of increasing resilience through advanced critical thinking by increasing how you predict danger. And Brian, the phone—you hear the phone ringing. You see what I'm trying to say?

So I'm with you, but I don't want to—I don't want the trainers to take this wrong. I don't want the trainers to think, "Oh, you're crapping on me because I can, you know, flip a tire or climb a rope or, you know, shoot underhanded backwards."

But that's a perfect example. That's a perfect example of how you're—all right, I'm going to, you're going to do—you're going to shoot and do a workout at the same time. Yes, that is really good to develop a whole bunch of different skill sets, but that's physiological stress you're inducing on yourself through exercise that in no way—in no way, let me be very clear—in no way does that replicate psychological stress that you're going to feel during one of those moments.

Yep.

It's much—if I go, "Greg, we're here's—here's the—here's the course of fire today on our range. You're going to carry that sandbag over there, you're going to flip that tire, you're going to do some backflips, you're going to sprint up that hill, then you're going to come down and you're going to have to shoot this and you're going to be breathing really hard, you're going to have to aim and do all that." Okay, that's going to be tough. All right. And that's going to be a stressful, physiologically stressful for you, okay? But if I if I go to that same, the 15-yard line, Greg, and I pull out that shot timer and I go, "Here's your course of fire. If you don't pass this on your first attempt, you are out of a job and you're going home today." Which one of those is more—that switches things a little bit.

Okay, but let me add one thing. But meaning it's not a real training scenario. I'm just saying...

No, that's the difference between physiological and psychological stress. Which one is harder? You can probably—we're not going the strategic which is the sociological byproducts of your decision.

Yeah. So let me just add one thing. I don't want you to stop, but I want you to add one thing. I was in a backyard in Detroit after midnight, trying to breathe life into a guy that was shot in the chest a number of times, and every time I blew in, blood and phlegm came out of the holes in the chest. And every time I leaned back to take a breath, parts of his lung and liver were in my mouth. So there are certain times that that image comes at me so vividly, Brian, and that's one of hundreds. Do you get what I'm trying to say? That I have to stop what I'm doing and take a big step back. Never done that in training, Brian, and we tried for realistic training, you and I. We tried with some great thought leaders. When we brought the amputees into the infantry immersive trainer, and you remember those—we did it with shocks when we had the system hooked up to different parts of the body, so when you had a near miss with a gunshot, you would feel that. Those were great, but those were physiological. You hear what I'm trying to say? And the only psychological was the PTSD we all walked away with from trying so hard.

So don't equate your endurance training with building resilience. It's not the same.

And what I don't see is that critical thinking, decision-making points put in. It's literally still just more high-speed, react to this situation, you're going to go make entry into that room and figure out what's going on. It's like, why? Why do I have to go in that room? Can we go to another room? Is this a—is this a hostage rescue situation? Am I—am I—am I in a special missions unit in the military? Because unless you're unless that you fall under that category, why are you doing that? Like, I don't know, because the burglar that's coming in to grab your flat screen for the meth that they want to do later is going to somehow keep your kid hostage? Are there articles about that?

Yep.

And so it's not training for the real event precisely. And one of the issues with that is we conflate this, and it's not—it's not because it's bad or stupid or we don't know what the [expletive] we're doing. It's one, it's fun, it's exciting, it's competitive, and it's—I'm, it's easy to show improvement, right? I can see a result. "Hey, I went from this type of shot group to this type of shot group. I hit those steel plates faster than I did." And that's good. That's—that's all good. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do that. You know, I never see some sort of realistic scenario where they have to articulate what they're doing, why they're doing it, and what action should be taken and what the potential second and third order effects are outside of our classroom. I've never seen that.

Yeah.

And so—so the point is I'm trying to make here is you're spending all of that time, all of that money, all of that resources on something that you're never going to use. It's going to be so—it's—it's so remarkable. Do you see what I'm trying to say? Such a one-off. Amazingly, it's not going to occur. The chances are so low.

But Brian, if you can predict danger, you can avoid it. Okay? And we're stepping away from that. People every day, somewhere in the United States, die from drowning in a pool at a house where then the medical investigator comes and says, "If you would have had a wrought iron gate or a pole, a retractable pole, you could have prevented this from occurring." And the person went and died. But it's going to happen tomorrow and it's going to happen a year from now, because why, Brian? Because it's not sexy, it's not exciting, it's not fun, and people never think that they're going to be in that kind of trick bag. And that's a thousand times more likely than the scenario you talked about on the range.

It is. And, you know, there's a number of reasons. You know, you brought up, you brought up, like, you know, simple things: a healthy diet and working out and stuff is—is going to—you know, there's much better for you than—than—than doing all of that stuff. But how do we—how do we change this and how do we include this? Because I see—I've seen people try to incorporate some sort of decision-making stuff, but it again, it turns into a binary choice. It's A or B. It's shoot or no-shoot. So—so what do you think is going to happen when you, you know, it's—it's—it's non-binary, like your sexuality, Greg. And thank you.

So...

So what I'm—what I'm saying is that, you know, if you don't build that in and all you do is those reps like that, it's like you said, it's muscle memory. If you are relying on muscle memory, then that's all you will have. So that is all you will do. "I saw this, I reacted."

Well, hang on, hey, hang on for a second. That's it. You just said, "Yes." Stimulus response, stimulus response, stimulus. So you're an amoeba. You know what I'm trying to say? Why? Because we could build a robot to do that. Yeah, and it'll—it'll come out with the same effect and it'll be cheaper. I mean, I want to ask you a question because you bring up such great points, Brian. One, I may never be able to outrun you or outlive you, but I can out-think you. Okay, that's huge to me.

The other thing is you brought up the gift of time and distance. The further away I am from you, the harder and less likely it is going to be that you're going to best me. And when I pull into the Apple Garden or whatever damn restaurant—I'm a Gunnison, so there's no restaurants and all the local stuff is wonderful, but it—but it doesn't have those cheesy, you know what I'm saying, chain store appeals. When I pull up into the parking lot and I see a situation that could evolve or devolve into something I don't want to be in, I have a pedal, and I have a 6,000-pound vehicle, yeah, and I can drive away.

Absolutely.

And when I see these people and I see the reactions—let me disabuse you of the fact that the attack on Congress was different in some way, and that it couldn't have been predicted. I will caution you that every class I've ever taught included a section about ladders, Brian, from the first time you took a course that I taught. Yeah, now you're—you're the expert. You're—you're—you're the number one with a bullet. You are the most likely to succeed in human behavior pattern recognition analysis. But at one time, you walked into a room where I was up there chain-smoking and sweating, and I was talking. Yeah, did I not talk about ladders? Ladders create access. Ladders are hugely important, and when you see them, you got to do the math. Well, they saw ladders all over D.C. They did not put the two and two together. Am I lying?

No.

And what happened?

That's the idea of looking at, you know, the crowd rushing up the Capitol. As they're like, "Oh, look, they broke through the barricades." I was like, "Those aren't barricades, those are ladders." Remember that? When they were rushing and breaking in, Brian, they were seconds before "bang." So that's all "at bang." Left of bang would have been rolling the tape back and saying, "Hey, what's with the masked guys carrying the ladder?" Do you see what I'm trying to say? "And they're meeting with another group with a ladder. Are they repainting the Capitol today?"

So, Brian, we talked about the RV and the camper and we talked about the cooling sources and the venting, and how one could easily be turned into a weapon. And then Nashville happens, and everybody goes, "Well, these specialty vehicles..." Listen, they've been dangerous since the Trojan Horse. We're just not thinking, and thinking is what's going to set us free here.

And I try to, you know, I—it's—it's—it's, I try to put this delicately because, you know, I don't want it to come across as I'm attacking you as a person or what you're doing. I'm saying there's an absolute necessity for that type of firearms training and everything. There I am not—I'm not disagreeing. What I'm saying is it's not a solution or an answer. It's a part of an overall task that you may need to accomplish, right? So—so there—there's no continuity there.

When you're on a flat range and you're shooting, that is part-task training. No matter how complicated the target array, no matter—it's part-task.

You're exactly right.

So—so think about that. So there's all kinds of different part-task training you do, like, "You know what, there's a million different things about, you know, learning a new radio or learning a new process or learning a new whatever it is, or a skill—putting a tourniquet on." That's part-task training, because if you're putting a tourniquet on someone, there's—there's—there's a whole scenario going on, right? But this is part of that task is to put that on. So—so I want to be clear on that, because why are you spending so much time on this one specific little part-task training? Why? Well, what—what—why increase that so much?

Now, I understand that, like, especially when you talk about firearms, that that takes longer because you need to develop proficiency, meaning you need more hours on the range to learn to safely shoot and handle a weapon system than you do how to put on a tourniquet, right? I mean, so I—I'm not talking about that. There is an initial number of man-hours that it takes to do that, right? Just to develop basic level proficiency. But what I'm talking about is continuing, "Oh, we're just going to continue down that. Hey, let's just keep going down that road." It's like, "Well, what about that road or that road or that road over there?"

Yeah.

"No, that's good. I'll—I'll see it. I'll be able to handle that. Look, I got the experience. I'll see that when it's coming." If there's not a better example of that type of attitude, look at what happened at the Capitol building. I mean, holy crap. That was a tactical, operational, and strategic blunder—a failure that I have—I have seen. I have ever seen. That was a bigger failure than 9/11 because this one was so much smaller and easier to prevent than 9/11. I mean, it—and and you missed it. And there's different reasons for that. But what I'm—what I'm getting at is at no point, like you said, someone went, "Hmm, crowd of angry people. Hmm, social media posts for days talking about this big day on this specific date at this specific time. Hmm, all these flyers being handed out to all these people." Now, there's all kinds of different groups in there. I'm not saying it was some super highly organized event. There were different actors in there. There were foreign intelligence services agents, there was—there was a homeless Pete out there. You had the dude ripping bong tokes in his car before he went out to the—to the rally. You had very serious, angry people with legitimate reasons and causes to be there. You had—you have a whole wide array of people. But what do you think is likely going to happen of all the potential outcomes is on the list that they're going to come in here and attempt to do? Yeah, because once that—it's once that spark gets lit.

So at no point was there any type of critical thinking going on, but guess what? They had everyone in there. You know, you had the response team with the Gucci gear and the nice weapon and the best optics on it. And even though they were walking up the stairs while another agent is shooting in their direction—I mean, what? You—you—you keep, we—if we keep going looking for a technological answer, this is what we're going to get. And when I say technological, a new weapon system is a technology, a new sight is a technology, a new piece of gear is a technology, and we go to that. We go to that, and we never exercise our brain. We never engage in critical thinking. We don't, or the "what-if" game is so stupid and ridiculous that it becomes, "Well, what if the, you know, a van full of machete-wielding midgets pulls up to the gate?" It gets dumb, right? We don't actually do that.

So why—why can't we develop that, Greg? Because then what happens is we all [expletive] about the, you know, the event afterwards and go, "Well, it's because of this, and this person didn't let me do my job, and this policy and procedure and this senator..." None of that's—that person wasn't even there. You were the one there. That person had nothing to do with it. So at a tactical level, you know, you—you can't control all those contributing factors of our—our national policy on whatever, but you can control it on the ground in your life. And you can articulate it. So we don't ever do that. And that's my problem is we don't do these type of training scenarios where we engage the brain. We engage muscle memory after muscle memory after muscle memory, and that's it.

So let me prove that to you, Brian. While in progress, the debacle that occurred in Washington, the reprehensible thing that everybody should be apologizing for on all sides, I sent you, Shelly, and Sean Clements a photo of a highly trained person who has been training their entire life for this exact scenario, at this moment, to prevent it. And at that stopwatch second in time, the person's carrying their ASP baton and their off-hand while talking on the radio. Okay? And so is mission uneffective—ineffective with all three of them.

And let me be very clear, that individual, it was not his fault. That was a failure, not on his part. There was a failure in training. Yeah. So I'm—what you were trained to do.

Right.

What I'm telling you is, we're too fast a hero sending out that these people are heroes because their faulty training got them killed during the most critical moment in the battle. And people are going to vilify me for saying that, Brian, but because you die—simply the fact of dying doesn't make you a hero. Do you get what I'm trying to say? And if you died for something that wasn't noble and you weren't moving the dial or saving a life or doing something—I suspect that what'll happen in 100 years is what's happening now: They're going back down and tearing down statues of Lincoln because he doesn't meet our current day standard of what a hero is. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? So I will tell you, it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. He didn't do enough. He just didn't do enough.

I wasn't there and I have no context to that. I—I wasn't alive during that time. I didn't feel his pain. I wouldn't—I didn't see. I didn't know what was going on. But I'm going to—I'm going to go and that—that's—that's a—that's getting into a whole another issue.

But is it not parallel to the argument that we miss, Brian? You said it. Okay, first of all, let's talk about coppers back in the day. If you could paint it flat black and hang it on my belt, I would buy it as a copper because I wanted the bat. I wanted everything from the door wedge to the car starter to the reverse 180 brake pump, whatever the hell the thing was. I wanted all of that. Why? Because I didn't know, and I was anxious. I didn't know what I needed in all these situations, so I'll carry everything. Well, we learned a long time ago that's not a very smart way of doing things.

So then what happened is we said, "Okay, holsters are getting ripped off the coppers, their guns are being taken, they're killed with their own guns." Well, those are facts. You can look those up, folks. You can see when the U.S. Department of Justice found those numbers and instituted a training program for weapons retention and weapons disarming because cops were being attacked in close proximity because they did not have the gift to time and distance.

What we haven't done is addressed the cause of time and distance. For example, we still don't understand physics, which is a scientific principle, and we put a fully grown copper out in front of a speeding vehicle from a property crime and have that person try to throw a tax strip down in front of the vehicle. What do you think? Right? Well, I know it's happening, you do too, because we read these topics. How many just last year were killed in that exact specific, that very specific thing?

Yes.

I bet—I don't—it was exponentially greater than the number of officers who were shot in a gunfight in the line of duty. I would say that if you compare them and then add the fact of holding on to a vehicle while it's driving and trying to use your superpowers, Marvel Comic hero, and stopping the vehicle. And you're saying, "Oh, those cops are heroes." They're not heroes, they're undertrained. When you are hanging onto a vehicle that is pulling away, it has ceased being a property crime now and is going into the attempted murder, the—you know, using a vehicle as an implement of a furtherance of a crime. You need to break contact. You—you know, we talk about covering concealment, Brian, but your brain isn't wired that way. Okay? Your brain is, "I need to get closer. I need to get hands on. I need to lock out." If we're not teaching at the academy that you have to push away, you have to get away from that vehicle, and you have to get behind something that can take the impact from a 6,000-pound vehicle, or whatever vehicles are weighing. I'm talking [expletive] because I don't know, but the idea is that I do know the basics of physics. If that vehicle hits you, it's likely to kill you. If the vehicle drives over your skull, you're likely not excited. I understand force equals mass times acceleration, but it's not taught at the police academy. Was that taught when you were teaching at the sniper school? Force equals mass times acceleration was taught because of the bullet density, the terminal ballistics. Yeah. Am I lying?

That's what I'm saying. It's—it's, but it's not in context with what we're talking about now.

No.

And the—this goes into our overreliance on technology. And again, everything is a technology. Your Taser is a technology, your tac vest is a technology. Everything that you're using is some form of technology. But that specific example, it goes from an auto theft, which, you know, I'm pissed if someone stole my Harley 10 years ago, or 12 or 15 years ago, whatever, right? That pisses me off. But you know what? Pay for insurance. So guess what? I got a big ass payout on it, and actually from where I bought it, what I put onto it, is actually somehow worth more where I was living than what I paid for it originally. So—so—so meaning, it's—is it worth a life on either side? No, because, you know, and I just two days ago discussed where a vehicle owner tracked down his own stolen vehicle, and it ended up killing the likely suspect. So cops die and suspects die, and it's not worth it for a property crime. It's not. It's not worth it, and you're doing a simple cost-benefit analysis and the cost is not worth the benefit.

Like, I—you know, it that auto theft—this is where we get it wrong. We go, "Hey, we need all this technology to do all this stuff. You're still putting out literally—I don't know how old that type of technology would be, but we're going to put down some sharp things on the road to stop someone." I'm guessing that that tactic has been used for a few thousands to try to slow Hannibal down, Brian, when he came over the Alps.

Exactly.

That's what I'm saying. It's like, "Wait a minute. We—we have things like license plate readers. We have cameras with facial recognition technology. We have drones." Like, why wouldn't you just go, "Oh, there he goes. Here, I'm going to point this little thing at it. Hey, the drone deploys and it just follows it. Let me just go grab a cup of coffee, guys." Like, it's just this immediate, immediate, emergent response to every single thing that happens, almost as if we never knew or had never seen this before. And you're going, "Well, how many vehicle pursuits have there been? Why—why haven't we come up with a better way to do it?" And it's just, "No, we need a faster vehicle. We need a better strip. Hey, we need to get this." It's like, "No, we—we don't. We do it. We need to go in a stark new direction because those didn't work and they're not working now."

And and creating a pursuit classic vehicle and putting different stripes and mag tires on it and stuff, you know what that does? That appeals to the adrenal cortex of the copper who goes, "Oh, got to have one." But that doesn't really promote a lot of critical thinking about payouts when the agency is sued for a reckless or preventable death.

No. And and this is the issue is—is what I'm attacking, what you're attacking, is that process, right? The training process, the implementation of policies and procedures and a whole bunch of other different things. Yep. So you go ahead and take your little bio break while I'll go on my own little, yeah.

But give me your rant, Brian. I'll be right back.

Little rant as Greg has to hop off momentarily for you guys and girls following along on Facebook Live. And if you're listening right now, it's just a good point to mention, you can follow me. I'll have the link on there to come up live and engage in the conversation when it occurs.

So Greg will be back in a second, but I just want to reiterate the fact that I'm saying that some of that training and stuff that I see is absolutely amazing. It's necessary, and people are really good at it. I've got friends that are some of the best shooters on the range I've ever seen and can move and do all that cool high-speed stuff. But I've yet to see someone translate that over into an actual situation on a realistic, scenario-based training. And I almost never seen that. I've only seen that a handful of times. And—and the—the—the reason why is we don't ever think all of this stuff through. That's why the—the—the person can't talk on the radio after one of these situations. They didn't train for that. That's why we're still running and jumping at moving vehicles because no one trained to, "Hey, no, you get away from that thing. You don't go towards it." Because everything in your primitive brain is screaming, "There's the threat! There's what I need to do! There's where it is!"

But the problem is, just like Greg talked about right at the beginning, is you have a very, very narrow functional field of view. Okay? For a guy, it's about a quarter held at arm's length. What does that mean? That's your strong central vision. That's all you can see. The rest outside of there is visual and perceptual fill. So when everyone's heard the term tunnel vision, it never gets explained correctly. "Anyone who's ever experienced that tunnel vision—man, that's all I could see right in front of me and there was nothing else out there." Let me be clear. If you've had that experience, that's actually all you can ever see, even not in those situations. That is your central vision. Everything else around there is visual and perceptual fill.

So back to the example that Greg brought up in Wisconsin of that police officer who chased that guy down and shot him a bunch of times, it's because that's all he could ever see was that threat. No one ever taught him, "Stop. Take cover. Look left, look right. Take in the whole scenario. Take a breath." If you're constantly reacting to someone else's behavior or someone else's actions, you're never getting ahead of the curve. If all you're doing is chasing TTPs, those Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures, "Okay, hey, they're doing this now. What's the big one?" All right, "They're—they're stealing catalytic converters off vehicles again." Now that's a big thing because they're worth a lot of money and they're taking a lot of—actually, the, I think it was the Ford Focus is the really easiest one to get. Now that becomes, "All right, we got to protect this." Okay, by the time you've come up with some way to prevent that, they've already moved on. So you're always behind the curve. All right? And that's the issue with here. And—and yes, the catalytic converter theft and officer-involved shootings are the same thing in terms of how we look at them in human behavior, right?

So that specific example of how that occurred in your strong central vision, that's it. You get locked in and that's all you can ever see, and that's why these situations occur, right? He never sat there for a moment and said, "Okay, if this happens, this may erupt into some riot in our city." No, because you weren't trained to think tactical, operational, strategic. It was, "Hey, there's the guy, go get him!" Well, the world is far more complicated than that right now. Okay? This isn't—there's nothing black or white about anything. And if you can't develop that way to look at things, then—then you're going to get yourself into some trouble.

So I'm not bashing any of that, not bashing any of these people involved. I'm not even bashing the—the—the lawmakers and citizens of the country who have no idea about any of this stuff yet feel that they get to voice their opinion on it, and even though it's an ill-informed opinion, I'm not even bashing any of those people. All right? Because you can't change that. What you can change is your training process and how you look at things and how you—how you implement policies and procedures, how you understand them, how you can take a 360-degree approach, how you can see where you fit into the overall bigger picture of events and make a calculated decision on, "Well, yes, I'm within my rights to do this. Yes, I can. Yes, I've been trained. Yes, the policies need to. But is it good?" Just because it's within my rights doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. And that's where if you're not training for that situation, you're not going to have an answer. It's muscle memory. Everything is taught muscle memory. Well, guess what? Your tactic—your reload on your weapon system, yes, that needs to be taught muscle memory. That is part of a larger task. All right? That is part of some larger thing that's going on. That's one part. Okay? That's it. So once you got it down from muscle memory, that's not going to think your way out of the situation. And that's where we're getting.

Brian comes back from the bathroom.

No, no. And I've been back a few minutes, folks, if you're not watching. And thank you for that, because I just can't handle it an hour anymore.

The idea, Brian, we—we—there's an ethical conundrum that comes up, and I'll give you an example. So we—it's hard for me sometimes to understand marijuana because I was—having tried—pretty easy to understand.

Yeah.

Let me—let me verify what I'm trying to explain. Yeah. I—I spent part of my life, then I was a member of drug task force, right? And I was in areas where marijuana and all drugs were zero tolerance. So understand this for a minute, right? That's your job.

Yeah, no, no, I got you.

And then all of a sudden you get into this situation where, you know, you—you now everything is—is okay. Well, that makes for hard critical decisions when you're in the moment. So, for example, you got a kid, the kid's in front of you. He's got a, you know, a couple of grams of weed that's in his menthol cigarette pack. He's taking the cellophane off and twisted that and he's got it in there, and he's going to, you know, do a bowl a little bit later. And so as you're patting them down, you know the crinkle of the cellophane, you know the outline of the thing. You can smell the reefer. And you go, "What's up, kiddo?" And he's like, "Hey, what do I do?" And you're saying, "Like, well, because I'm a law enforcement—law enforcement officer, and we're in a zero-tolerance state, I have to take that. I have to book you. You're going to have to hope for a 53-11 to get out of this because if not, it's going to change the entire trajectory of your life." That's a fact.

So if I'm thinking about that with the weed, and we developed a policy called "Windy City," which is like the unspoken, "I'm going to put it down on the ground and rub it out with my heel and then tell you to get the hell out of there. There's your free chance." You know what I'm saying? Okay, but—but, like, if you tried to lie from here, run from me, or do something else, so I had this ethical standard that as long as you met my illegal—my illegal view of the world, you fit. Well, that happens every day, and Brian, I'm talking about a couple of grams of weed and me thinking about this kid's future and trying to pursue. So why don't I think about that when I got a gun in my hand? Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

And I'm about to take somebody's life because we're not trained to do that.

Well, because here's the thing too, and this is where I will discuss a little bit about policy. This is how policies and procedures come into play, right? And first of all, that was the story of how Greg and I first met, by the way.

But Brian spent a lot of time in the backseat of a scout car so he could speak as a SME (Subject Matter Expert) on police. I—I refer to them as ride-alongs. But, but you—when you im—when you—when you talk about policies and procedures being implemented and when you over—okay, so we rather than investing in training, so investing in who we want—I mean, just—just take a step back real quick and go, who do we want to police our society? I mean, think of it. I know of all the people I've met in my life, I can think of like five people, and actually a couple of them are police officers, a couple were police officers, or like six or seven people that I would go, "That person would make a great police officer," you know, someone to enforce laws and deal with people and deal with things that no one wants to deal with in our—in our country, right? Because it's—I—I you've seen me before when we teach police officers, I say, "Your job is more complicated than you're getting credit for, than you're giving it credit." And be like, "No, we have this." It's like, "No, no, no, it's far more complicated than even you realize." And it's not like an intellectual thing or so you're stupidity things. It's like, "No, you're not giving yourself credit, and no one does."

But the point I'm trying to make is what—what happens is we have because we're not teaching critical thinking, because we're not investing in an actual training in a real training cycle and what this job should be and who should be in it and what the pay should be and all that stuff, because we're not doing that, we come in with policies and you say, "You know what, Greg, because people were doing that, now—now you must do this." It's like the—the story out here years back where a sheriff walked up on a vehicle. Guys passed out inside. It was right off the freeway out here. And again, he's like, "What's going on?" It was—there's like a whole bunch of bars and stuff near the air. It was like four in the morning or three in the morning. And he's like, "Hey, man, like I was up buddies, just drank too much, I'm sleeping off my car." And that guy goes, "Okay, cool. I don't get off until till 7:00 a.m. or something. You better still be here when I'm going to come by you on my way back. You better still be here." Well, guess what? That guy then couldn't get back to sleep, got on the freeway, you know, killed someone in a vehicle accident because it was a DUI (Driving Under the Influence) and all that. So now that guy's in church.

So now it becomes, when you—you don't—you will do this when you see that, Greg. So you don't get that leeway. I don't get a choice. You don't get to take the context and the relevance. You don't get to take in the totality of the circumstances. Right? Look at for what it actually is and make a call on judgment. Instead, you will just follow this policy. That's it. So—so rather than—than—than creating or—or—or developing that—that person, that officer, that individual out on the front line to the best of that we can possibly do, we say, "Nope, if A happens, you have menu choice one, two, or three. If D happens, you have choice four, five, and six, and you will follow this." So—so it becomes so procedural. You get—I—I don't get to use any experience. I don't get to use any judgment. I don't get to use any of the knowledge, skills, attitudes, aptitudes, abilities that I've been taught, learned, trained, even though the emotions are attached to every decision I make. So—so—so that becomes, "Now you'll do this." And now that leads to, "Okay, well, that leads to things like mass incarceration in our country. That leads to things like people going to jail no matter what, and now you have a—now you have an arrest record." Guess what? Once you've been arrested once, what are your chances of—of going to jail again? Well, we already did a freaking podcast on that.

So the—the idea is we're taking—we're taking out any type of—of—of leeway or judgment from that person. They don't get to make that call anymore because their job is on the line. They're like, "Dude, I don't care." And so now what becomes a misdemeanor now becomes a guy resisting, takes off in a vehicle. Now it's felony after felony after felony. And where maybe 30 years ago the guy goes, "All right, man, here's the deal. You got to dump that over there and go on about your day. I know you got a family and you got a job, and if I hook you up right now, you're going to lose that." Right now, you don't get to do that. It just—there's no, yeah. That's the problem, right? So that's one of the problems.

But—but, and—and folks, listen, and Brian is not oversimplifying this. Brian is—is creating an allegory, and so I'll add to Brian's comparison. When—when I say that, listen, we should form a course, Brian, if we're going to do police reform and training reform, we should form a course called "Getting Away." And if we look at that from sociological, physiological, and psychological, this is what we would see from it. One, your feelings are going to get hurt when a suspect runs from you, and your brain is going to say, "Go!" And your catch instinct when somebody runs away is going to way outrun your headlights and you're going to get hurt or somebody else is going to get hurt. At the end of every pursuit, nobody shuts the sirens off because they can't even hear them. Nobody stops flogging until finally somebody goes, "Oh, holy crap, wait a minute, which puddle is the suspect?" Why? Because in our brains, it's a game, and we haven't tried to game that game. We—we've played around with the weapons and the speed of the vehicles and the differences.

But the idea is that even when I'm standing on a street corner and I contact you and all of a sudden you push off—and folks, that's called resist, and it's actually an assault. But the idea is that you don't have the right to do that on the books. You have to stay. And if it's an unlawful arrest, there's redress. Okay? Yeah. But the idea is both humans are—are products of their emotion, Brian. So the suspect goes, "I got to flee!" And he rabbits. And the officer says, "Oh, not today!" Well, not for me. Okay? We have to have a class at every academy that addresses those actual issues.

And somebody will tell you, "Yeah, we do." Okay, so that—that study you and I did a while ago where it was 85% of the—the academies did the pursuit driving and the shooting, daylight, nighttime, all that other stuff. And out of the entire—I can't remember, 1800 hours or whatever the hours—don't hold me to the numbers, folks, I don't know—10 hours spread across a 16-week academy was communication skills, but that included radio and interpersonal communications, not stress communications, Brian. Do you see what I'm saying here? I'm trying to say that we spend so much time walking around with the gun that we think it's an option. Okay? The gun shouldn't be an option. You—you know—you know how many times you have to pull a gun in a—pulling your gun from the holster, even aiming at the ground, is a use of force that has to be justified, and that should have to be the last and most lethal intervention.

You see outgoing President Trump and incoming President Biden—you weren't cops, so shut up. You don't shoot people in the legs. That's not going to do anything.

But I think that highlights your small city isn't a cop either so he's gonna come in with an uninformed opinion as well.

What we have to do is we have to create a standard, and I don't care if it's a national standard, but it certainly has to be an ethical standard that we say that in these situations, we don't allow the human physiology or the human psychology to outweigh the sociological good. Brian, that's a simple thing to attain. We could attain that in a year. You—you get what I'm trying to say? I mean, if we focus what the real problem is, what does society want? What do they want from their—their police? Well, we can build that. And the police keep thinking, "Well, militarization is going to help because there's going to be greater problems, folks, from Iraq and Afghanistan. They'll build a bigger bomb. Your M-RAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected) isn't big enough for all the bombs." That's—that's—that's not the way.

Brian, technology is not the answer. That's the chasing the TTPs. And then the solutions come in, is this, "Okay, well, we got to learn about culture, and we have to learn about, um, you know, different types of differences in different groups in your city and stuff." And—and my thing that is, "Um, well, you know, you—you know, the cultural training I got before my first deployment to the Middle East was, 'Hey, don't—uh—don't wave with your left hand because they wipe their ass and don't show someone the bottom of your shoe.'" Yeah, start at war. Good luck. Like, what the [expletive] is that? All right? And it's the same stuff. It's like, "Hey, you know, you can't talk to this person that way because of—I need to know about this specific culture or tribe or whatever." You—no, you don't. It's like telling people, "Hey, look, man, it's going to be different when you go to Japan and on the subway they pack people in those things like sardines." All right? "But that's just a cultural thing." "I need to teach." Wow, that's amazing. If you can figure that out in the first three seconds you're there, you don't belong there. Like, you should take a bus. It's like, what—what are you—what—what why is that—why is that important knowledge? Right? It doesn't matter, Greg, what your religion or skin color or—or—or language is. If I can't tell that you're getting upset and attempt to de-escalate it—de-escalate it, then that's a problem, right? It doesn't matter what—who you are or what race, gender, sex, whatever you identify as, it doesn't matter. If I can't read a situation and go, "Hey, this is escalating. I need to do something to mitigate this from escalating further," right? That—that's what it is. That's—that's a baseline. What—what I need to do.

And when they talk about different type of, "Hey, we need more de-escalation training, Greg," so we need people to go, "Stop! You know, calm down!" Here we go. Now you're poking the bear, because that's not de-escalation. One, that's—that's a tactic. Okay, great. That—that seems pretty common sense to me. But what we talk about is a tactical, operational, and strategic approach to that, and yes, that's taught nowhere. Nowhere is that taught.

Turmoil if you don't know what that means when it comes to sociology. Turbidity when you don't understand that in the psychological sense. If you don't understand how a mirage can occur in your brain, and it's called dissonance when you're in a situation that you don't completely understand, these are the things we spend so much time on checking the box, getting people to understand [expletive] that is not going to help you save a life or save your own life or impact the future because we're afraid and anxious of lawsuits and getting fired and, you know, the—the—the idea is that when Minnesota and Wisconsin both said, "Well, we're no longer going to listen to the police public information officer." Okay, well, there you go. So what we're going to do is we're—we're not going to fix the news and what's problem with journals, what we're going to do is we're going to shut off the news and not listen to it. Okay, welcome to North Korea. I mean, you have got to do something in the human behavior realm because humans come, Brian, you used the word snowflake the other day. You know that I've been using "unique little snowflakes" for 40 years.

Yeah.

And now it's a thing. But you use it as the term of, "Every snowflake is unique, we're all individual and different." Right? Other people, "Like, now it's an insult."

Yeah, yeah. But—but my point, and it's an insult usually thrown out by people who get—get the snowflake.

I know. So—so which is ridiculous and—and—and dichotomous and—and so revealing. But what I'm trying to say is if you spend time like, for example, understanding math, understanding physics—those—those are quantifiable and—and there's limits and—and the Fibonacci sequence is repeatable. You know—you know I was going to fit that. I knew it.

Okay.

But when we're talking about humans making decisions, Brian, every unique little human comes with a little backpack. Remember the little version of the hobo that you saw back in, you know, 100 years ago, or Meet Me in St. Louis, the film, where they've got a stick over their shoulder with a little bag with all their belongings and they got a three-day growth of beard. Okay, when you take a look at that mental image, that little bag gets bigger and bigger during your life, and you bring all of that stuff with you, and they try to weed it out. They try to do these MMPI (Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory) and psychological testing and all that other stuff, which is the fact of the matter is that even though it's hidden, it's there, Brian. Yeah. Okay. And what happens is the first time somebody pulls a gun on you and says, "Give up the cheese," all of those things are going to come into play.

So realism in training doesn't mean that it has to be so real that you can feel, touch, taste, sense all of the things that are happening, but it has to be real to your brain. And that's only probably 60 to 80% real. But the idea is thinking your way out of those a couple of times, like escaping from one of those rooms, you know, not—not the type of room you use to lock people in, but the—the fun one that people pay to get into now and unlock.

Yeah, she puts the lotion on her skin.

But the idea, Brian, is that if we don't insert those components into every bit of training—if you're an edge weapons teacher, if you're an impact weapons teacher, if you're a pursuit driving or a defensive driving teacher, whatever you do—if it doesn't have an equal amount, and when I mean equal, I mean everything has to start and end with the human capital, the human domain, the human behavior, the scientific. Then—then, Brian, you're where we started again, you're pissing up a rope. You make a damn fine video.

And the one that insulted me the most over the holidays is the, you know, "200 biggest ass-kickers in America, we'll share with you on LinkedIn the brain scan." You know, move, "Kiss my ass, come get some." And the second part of it is, I'll make this, Brian, and there's a lot of people that talk crap all the time on their podcast, so—so here's—here's an absolute certainty: Congress, Senate, been to the Rayburn Building, know how to get there. If you guys want your people trained on how the human behavior works to sense-make the predictors of violent situations, Brian and I will show up and do it free. We'll come there this week. All you got to do is pay our flight, put us up somewhere, and feed us, and we'll come, and we'll change your world by opening your eyes to how these situations develop so you can conduct predictive analysis in real time. That's the key, Brian, that's where the training reform has to come from. Not holding my weapon, my ASP, and the radio all in the same hand and juggling and wondering why I look like such an idiot. And I'm not calling that guy...

No, no, he can only be the function of what he was taught.

Right.

Right. Well, that's exactly that. He can only be the function of what he was taught, what he knew. But you bring up a—a number of different—of different topics, and—and, you know, that's—well, first of all, I don't worry about these people being upset that we're bashing because one, we're not bashing them, and they're not snowflakes, so they won't care.

Right. It won't—it won't hurt them emotionally. If they're smart, they'll listen, just like we listen when somebody gives us good advice.

Absolutely. So, but the—what you're—you got into a couple different areas, and—and specifically when we talk about that critical thinking in—in science and math, we—but we want simple answers, right? Everyone wants to know the problem, though: there's no simple answer, but we want one. You know, we prefer one. You keep bringing up what happened at the Capitol building in D.C. the other day, and it's like the same thing, and it's—it's, "Well, well, it's all because of this." It's like, "Okay, you—you're going to take the guy dressed up in some goofy costume and then the guy who was—they got video of and the FBI's got the photos of it out and asking for advice about the guy they figured they traced back who brought the actual pipe bombs in." You're telling me you're going to lump them in together? Wow, your world's real [expletive] simple. Well, your world is real simple. Well, wake up, it's not. Okay? These are hard problems. These are very hard problems, and we don't even do a good job of articulating what the problem is. We immediately come in with a solution and say, "Oh, here's the answer. Here's what we need to do."

And you brought up a big thing: fear. And fear of lawsuits, fear of repercussions, fear of—of dying, fear of all this stuff. And—and that is a huge issue. Well, that's the thing. If you're scared, it's because you don't understand. If you're—if you fear—we're natural fear for all kinds of different things like, you know, spiders, snakes, all that different type of stuff. So if you're untrained and don't know how to deal with that situation, it is scary. So if you're making decisions based in fear, you're not making good decisions.

Well, so Tommy Nelson...

You're making good decisions for your own personal survival and that's it.

40 years ago, being an on-duty roll call on midnight shift, my first night on the job, and Tommy Nelson must have been 300 pounds. His—his bullets for his .38 Plus P had turned green and long, had become part of the dump pouch that he held him in with his crappy weapon. But he was a cop, he was back in the days, two-fisted shooting, foul-mouthed, you know, taking on all comers. And he stood up and he said for the new kids in the room, because he talked just like that. He said, "Best advice I ever got as a cop: If you're scared, don't go." He didn't know what he meant, but he was—he was dropping gems, and we needed to pick him up. The idea is that your mental functions are going to be different.

Listen, Brian, you've been in combat. I—I've got to tell you, there was a couple of times, and specifically one time when I was in Iraq, when the—the first sergeant was coming around and said, "We're getting overrun, so grab as much ammo as you can and move, you know, to this." Yeah. And I was like, "Excuse me, I'm just a strap hanger, I'm not in this." You know what I'm saying? And I'm negotiating for my life, Brian. I'm saying, "Look, all you guys might die tonight, but I'm different, I need to go home." And—and, you know, that was—that was a fearful thing I live with that. Why, Brian? Because anxiety and fear comes from the unknown. The unknown comes from the outcomes of training that you learned that you can be a superhero and fight your way, shoot your way, impact weapon or knife or drive your way out of any situation. My thing is that doesn't matter because if you don't get into the situation, you change the calculus. So by conducting predictive analysis, you change the out—for example, if there would have been surgical intervention at the Capitol from teams that said, "Listen, we're not going to just put up barricades and hold back the throng. We're going to take out that group and that group that have the likely means to carry out the threat that they're preventing." Brian, it would have had a completely different outcome. There wouldn't be four dead. There wouldn't be the—the mayhem. But we don't think in those terms. We think, "Okay, I can imagine a big pool table, Brian, with the, you know, those things that they play pool on with the—and they're pushing around the cavalry and they're pushing around [expletive]." Man, that ain't the way wars are fought. You get what I'm trying to say? These are communities of individuals, and our nation isn't at war unless the journals and the politicians want it to be. And we could have intervened. If training was there, we could have intervened and stopped that before it ever turned into the situation it did.

Well, that's the thing is that, you know, it's—it's, you know, you keep saying this is what we're talking about, the—the gift of time and distance and advanced thinking and understanding, this is, "Don't get into the situation." How do you avoid—like, the—the that's what a de-escalation strategy should be. We're not just going to be an ostrich, Brian, we're not saying, "No, just don't get involved." We're saying, "Get involved at the key essential times, and you will save money, you'll be more efficient, and you won't kill as many people."

Well, right. But that goes into still having the idea is how do we avoid this from happening? All right? You got to crowd out on the Capitol. But how do we—how do we avoid them coming in here and ransacking the place? How do we avoid them from attacking? How do we avoid—like, that's your—your mitigation procedure should start, you know, we always say, "Prevent pre-event," right? Prevention starts before the event, you know, not during. But—but the idea is is don't get in the situation. And one of the things I used to always tell people is like, you—you know, you could be a major contributing factor to your own homicide. Like, you—you are the biggest contributing factor to your—

I got that written right down here. It's your job to prevent your homicide.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying is—is that, you know, and again, everyone takes this as a bash, and I'm not. I'm saying you—you—you caused—you may have caused that situation to occur, and you're going, "Well, no, I didn't. I just followed what I was supposed to do." I go, "Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like you—you did what you were supposed to do, and—and this situation happened. That's the [expletive] problem." Okay?

Exactly right.

It's not that someone's wrong. Training has improved so much over my lifetime in terms of what's real and what works and what doesn't. And now you can, because of social media, you can call [expletive] on people. And when they post stuff that is [expletive], and that—that's good. That's getting us better, but it's not changing the situation because we're not changing how we look at it. It's not—it's not changing the outcome because—because the training is the same thing.

So, Brian, and you're right again and again and again. But the idea is that when you and I are doing a podcast for just you and I, the message is a bit muted. You see what I'm saying? So I take you back to Manchester Ariana Grande concert. And—and people saying, "There's a suspicious male." It wasn't acted upon. A guy bringing a suitcase into the concert wasn't acted on. Okay? So we talk about that one. We go back to the—the, what was the guy, Aaron Hernandez, that was alleged to shooting with a—yeah. And then they go through that entire thing and convict him. And they got the first—by the way, did you guys know that, you know, he had shot a couple of guys? Yeah, they killed the guy. And then they started saying, "Oh, it was the homosexual rage that did it." And then the other thing was he was the brain injury. Remember that? Yeah. It was so rough upbringing that it was—which is all great. It's all great, Brian. But that's us trying to name Sasquatch. That's trying to—to account for the—the flair at the military base by saying it was the UFO.

What we have to do in a clear light of day is we have to sit down with the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) and the Southern Poverty Law Center and the officers' training councils in each of the 50 states. And what we have to do is, first of all, tabula rasa. We can't look back. You and I got an argument with some—not an argument, we had a decision, a difference of opinions where the person that said, "Hey, we already got this. Well, you know these programs are hanging on a shelf." No, they're not. They're hanging on the shelf for when it was, you know, like—like—like we can't deal with the Capitol being stormed now like it was in the 1800s, Brian. It's a little bit of a different thing that's going to happen.

So—so if we say that these advancements in laser and plasma weapons and sound technology and all that other stuff is just going along, why haven't we done one thing to bring the social, the physiological, and the psychological along? Why haven't we done one impactful thing when it comes to the academy? Even sending social workers out in the field, Brian, is an "at bang" solution. That's putting a [expletive] band-aid on this problem. That's—that's what they said in Apocalypse Now, "We're handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500." We're not going to get there from here. We have to sit down with those thinkers and we have to come up with the scientific solution, Brian, and the scientific solution is and was training, but it has to be a revamp of this age-old training that—that we envision. It—it's no longer viable.

Well, that and that's—that's the—I agree, and the problem is we—there are advances in training, but the process is still the same. That—and that's what we do, right? We build a framework, right? We go, "Here's the framework because it's efficient."

Well, but that's the idea. It's everyone wants that. "Okay, if we just—well, hey, we just need to give these people some more training on—on human trafficking, and we'll solve that problem." It's like, "Well, yeah, I—I, okay, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just saying that's not a solution."

That's not it. It's all here.

I didn't even get the memo when they changed like prostitution to human trafficking. Right? They changed their lives. It didn't bring us all up to either. So—but—but you get what I'm trying to say, so that's not a 360 approach.

No, that's a one-direction approach. And I'm going to make fun of that because it's hugely important to get those people out of the situation, but, Brian, it's at bang. It's not solving the situation for the future sociologically or psychologically.

No, it's—well, it's a constant reaction to something, and that's where all these things come from. And the reaction is never—we don't ever want to go back and look at, go back to just this what happened at the Capitol building, right? No one goes, "What were the contributing factors that led to this?" Meaning that led to that group of people even being there. Okay? No, everyone goes, "Well, no, there they are, and this is what occurred. And while we, if we change this, this, and this..." It's like, "Okay, maybe at a tactical level that's necessary. You clearly had a shitty, shitty security plan or just decided to not implement it at all." Right? "Did nobody have binoculars? Was the radio net down?" But—but for the love of God, man, the thing is is, you know—you know, and I—I know people are resigning and getting fired and all that stuff, and yeah, that doesn't—yeah, absolutely they should. But [expletive] responsibility. "At bang," after "bang," that has right. And then they're going to go, "But then what are they going to do? Okay, hey, you know what? Now we're going to make it where you have to be at least 300 yards from here, and there's going to be tactical considerations here." Which are necessary, but no one's going to sit there and go, "Hey, you know what? Why'd these [expletive] [expletive] show up in the first place? What happened? How'd they get there? Who—who got him there? What—what? Why did they feel that they need to come?" Like, "Where was the rental? Where was the taxi?" It's all just, "This occurred. Let's figure out how to not make that specific situation occur again."

How many RVs have been pulled over since Christmas morning bombing in Nashville? Because for all the wrong reasons. Only because it's an RV. That's exactly right, Brian. But are you telling me that my grandkids—that's great-grandkids, folks—are you telling me that my grandkids and some of the illegitimate children that Brian has spawned into this world, oh, we're not going to be able to see the public building, the Capitol, and go into the Senate and meet their senators and congressmen because of this incident? If so, is that the result you were aiming for? Are you trying to weaken the fabric of our democracy? So my point, Brian, is that we can't have this pendulous response to all of these incidents. "No RVs, no coolers coming into the concert." What we have to do is we have to conduct predictive analysis and be laser-focused in our response. And those people that get that training have to be thinkers, they have to be critical thinkers. We no longer need the gigantic gladiators with a bigger club stopping and stomping out crime. We figured that doesn't work, Brian. Okay? So—so we have to go a different way.

And I'm not trying to say hypothesize and slow down and, you know, think all is love with the community policing project that didn't do [expletive] in our communities, frankly. I'm talking about a thinking human being that's at the end of that chain because always there's a human at the end of the chain that is going to change and—and adapt for the better by utilizing critical thinking skills. Brian, I would say this, and I know it sounds like I'm ranting, but I'm not. The idea is that I think that if a human being spent a quarter of the money that they spent armor-guard and cameras and guns and upgrading the—the push bumper on their car for the Zomboc—if they spent a quarter of that time and that money on getting the right training, their entire focus would change. The scales would fall from their eyes. They would go, "Wow, I can enjoy life and be safe and conduct predictive analysis and stop events before they occur." We can do it with a fire, but we can't do it with wildfire. Why? And nobody's trying. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

No. Okay.

So we could do it with—with hijacking airplanes, but we can't do it with turning airplanes into a lawn dart and burning them into a building. Why? Because we don't want to. If we want to, Brian, the answer is in science. The answers in science and human behavior. When they're coupled, they're insurmountable. They're—they're—you—you can't beat them.

Yeah. And—and this is it's extremely frustrating, and—and that's what this, you know, comes out as is because how many times did I keep picking on the—the range stuff and the shooting just because it's so easy to and it's such a great...

But it's also so prevalent.

Yeah, well, that's interesting. It's such a great example of—of—of how these things go. I mean, you can pick a number of different areas and—and look at it the same way. But—but that one's just is so prevalent. And to look at it and, you know, how many times where I have been in positions where, um, it was a tactical sort of training instructor to not, "You're the guy," but to show that. And—and you had guys that could just, man, run a gun like you wouldn't believe and do all this whiz-bang cool stuff, and I'm like, "Damn, like, so—so impressed." And then when a situation and realistic some interpret training scenario comes up, it's like, "Well, why did you do that? What was that over there?" "Yeah, that dude is—uh—yeah, there's something up." "Go—go—go on." "Yeah, he's just acting. He's doing like—"

No, not even a basic word to describe other than, "Well, he's acting shady." I was like, "What, it's [expletive] hot out, and he's getting in the shade."

Like, "Slim, we joke about this, but, Brian, do we not attack people and their credibility when they start talking like that?"

Why? So prove it. So what? You know, if you can't articulate your observations, there's a problem now. Yep. I'm not saying it's a problem with you. I'm saying it's a problem with the training you went through if you can't tell me why you made a decision. You don't get to—you shouldn't be allowed to make those decisions.

Right. I agree.

You get what I'm saying? Is that's where it has to come in, "Because of this coupled with that mixed in with this, I arrived at this conclusion." Now, if you arrived at the wrong conclusion, we can fix that.

Right.

But meaning if you can't even say what occurred, if you can't even explain that, then—then you're—then—then what are we doing here? So let me—let me—let me throw a clear sheet of acetate over your argument, and I'm going to start drawing on it with my Vis-à-vis marker. Okay? One of these statements is true today. "Holy crap, I can't get any of these great books on psychology, sociology, or physiology, and anxiety and stress and—and—uh—uh, you know, preparing myself mentally for situations mindfully and—and with empathy. I can't get any of those books, Brian, they're all sold out and they're on back order." I can't get any. Okay? But on the other side is, "Ammo. I can't get nine-millimeter ammo. I can't get reloading. I can't get." So what does that show? That's the descent into madness, Brian. We continue to buy metal flashlights and better guns and fix them with better sights because we don't plan on thinking ourselves out.

That's—that's critical. Going back to that Hernandez case, the lawyer on Hernandez's trial was the same lawyer for Florida female killed her daughter, Amy—no, Casey Anthony. Remember the Anthony trial? Okay, he was so—yeah, yeah, the—the—the same—same guy, Bass, Bias, whatever his name was. It was the same dude. Okay? And—and there's one part during the trial, it's—folks, everything you need to know, you can study, it's out there. Go look at these things. During one things he—he says, "Hey, listen, if you can't put a gun in Aaron Hernandez's hand, he's not guilty." He tells the jury that. Then they got a hundred hours of video from all different angles of his own home security that shows Aaron Hernandez coming out of his basement holding the Glock. Yeah. Okay? And it was at the same time that whoever he shot died and all this other stuff. Okay, Brian, if you take the argument that we're going to be able to fight our way out of this, arrest our way out of this—those are all lies.

Fight your way out of it. Those are all lies that your brain is telling you. The answer is we have to think our way out of this, and we have to slow the [expletive] down. We have to take a gigantic look at the 360 implications. And people are going, "That will take time." Oh, danger! Yeah, it's going to take time, but the end product is going to be better.

"But he's not going to be a—what do you what are you saying [expletive]?"

Okay.

It's that's the issue. And it's always been the issue, Greg. It's never about money. Yes, you're right. The economy this, that, whatever. Great. We're—we're a rich country, and we spend money on stuff that we don't need and don't use and goes to waste. The money is there. It's time. You're exactly right. People are lazy. No one ever wants to take the time. And if you don't take the time, this is what's going to happen, and it's going to happen again and again. And it happened, but, "Well, we can't fit it in because we're busy." But when are you not [expletive] busy? When is—when is—when is your rate, especially a—a metropolitan police department? Yep, give me an example of a real lull. Give an example of a time when you're not really busy. Okay? So that's not going anywhere. So let's just assume that to be, "Yes, you'll always be." I don't care. It's the same thing when people go, "Oh, I don't have time for the gym. I'm busy." Your—your whole life—everyone's busy. We get it. We get it. You're willing to trade an hour a day?

You—you exactly.

The whole point is is you can take the time to do that. You—you can always—you—you can if you want. If that's what you want, if you really want it, you'll take it. But you got to want it, Marren.

And—and Marren, you know my uncle Paul, and you know I'm no stranger to his basement. Okay? God rest his soul. But he had a leak, and it was in East Detroit. And the basement was started as what they call the Michigan basement, but they built it out, and even though it was rudimentary and very spartan, it was a basement. Okay? But they had this leak. And on this one wall, over 13 years that I got to see it grow, you could see all this stuff they had patched and put on to try to stop this leak in the basement that happened every spring and flooded the basement. Now I asked the guy when I got older, I go, "Hey, what do you do for them basements?" And they go, "You got to go outside. You got a trench. You got to put the pea gravel. You got to do all that other stuff." I go, "Yeah, but my uncle Paul, 13 years he kept putting stuff on for that one spring that did it." And he goes, "It would have cost a fraction, but it would have taken time, and he didn't want to invest the time." Okay? You're talking about the same thing. All I'm trying to do is street it up another allegory. I'm trying to say that listen, wisdom is going to get us out of these situations. Okay? Knowledge is going to get us out. People call "woke," but "woke" is bigger than we are, folks. And it's finally seeing that—that Tesla was right. Finally taking a look at the situation and saying it wasn't a UFO, to really dig deep and entrench ourselves on the issue. If we want reform, Brian, reform is going to be painful, it's going to be expensive, and it's going to take time, but it's attainable, and it's a noble goal.

That's what we wouldn't be having this discussion. I wouldn't be angry and frustrated, all this [expletive], if it wasn't attainable. None of this was attainable. We wouldn't—I wouldn't care. I'd go have a different job. I mean, there'd be no reason to do it because we go, "Well, that's the way it is." Like, you know, but—but that's the problem. It doesn't have to be that way. And—and it's where—where it gets in here is—is that a way of thinking is, um, you know, it gets in—it gets in our own way. But—but once everyone sees it for what it is or has that explanation, like you go, "Oh, [expletive], that's kind of makes sense. I see what you're getting at." We—we're constantly just—we're just—we're chasing whatever the likes are. Are we not on the same side here? Are we not—

See, I don't understand who put up the wall and says, "It's us and them."

Well, when you do that, when you do that, you create this—and don't take my words and say, "Oh, well, the border this and that." You know, listen, all the experts understand that if we dilute something too much, it's not going to be the original. That's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is doing it incrementally so we all get to the finish line together. That's what this is about. This is about all of us surviving and thriving, Brian, and there's room for everybody at the finish line, and it's just going to take—

Look, living without mindfulness and empathy is merely existing. Living in a situation where you're afraid so badly that you've changed how to buy ammo—you just can't get it anymore, Brian—that's no way to live, man. That—that, and it's living on the news. It's like when you're [expletive] scared that the Capitol is being taken over. Oh, that's the stuff.

What I see with the—with everything with the some of the people walking out with just loaded up with full kit and M4s and sidearms and this, and I'm going, "You are carrying more of ammo and weapons than I have in certain situations in a horrifyingly—don't say kinetic—okay, a combat situation that was could have been extremely deadly for me. And it was. People died. Your friends died. And—and you're in the United States carrying all that? What the [expletive] do you think is going to happen right now? What are you—what—what in your head, you're already going, 'This is going to escalate to an all-out war. I'm being overrun.' Well, that's not where you're at. Like, you have no right to trust that fear. That's fear. You're scaring me into following your side of the argument." And—and that at a personal level, if you can't sit here, because you just brought it up and said, "You know, hey, are we, you know, we're all one and the same, we're trying to get to the end state." At a personal level, if you can't, you know, say that that's another human being or that's a person or that way of thinking is something that I could easily fall into, and you're wrong because it is. Like, I don't care what it—like, you—you there—that human behavior is—is that spectrum, Greg. We all fall in on there somewhere.

But—but we're all on the same flipping line.

Reason for calling it a spectrum, do you know what I'm trying to say? I mean, exactly. We're all on there, which is so—and then our ability to—to think critically or—or look left and right, whatever, falls in somewhere, and some can do it better than others. But—but we're all on there. So if you don't think that that could be you doing that, then you're wrong. If you look at that and—and something a police officer does like that and starts a riot in a city and go, "You don't think that that could be you?" Sorry, man, you—you—you are not looking at this accurately. You can—it goes back to our intent argument, and it does not matter that copper never intended to create that outcome. That copper never intended to chase down a person and shoot them in the back and do those things. But, Brian, because of the limits of their training and because their brain chemistry took over, it was unavoidable. But it's not unavoidable with the right amount of training and the right places at the right times. Brian, remember when we tried to take "Combat Hunter" to TBS (The Basic School) and they said, "Yeah, we think it's a great concept, but we got nowhere to put it." Okay, Brian, that's a problem. And is that not the same problem that we're hearing today? You know what I'm saying? "Hey, I don't have time for this. I don't have time for this." Make time for it. Are you going to pay—

Well, but—but at the same time, like, that same person will say, "We don't have time for it," goes, "Oh, yeah, I get it. The gift of time and distance. That makes sense. You want time to make those decisions." You go, "Like, well, but you just said you don't have time, though."

Like, "Well, this is exactly what irony and—" And I know that there's a lot of like, I'm—we're not oversimplifying all the different contributing factors to this, right? It's not what I'm saying. We're saying they're—uh—they exist, and we're giving a few examples to saying they exist, and we're saying they're not as important as people realize. Like, meaning if you don't—you—you're never going to get ahead of the curve if you're always reacting to what's going on, right? If you are—if you haven't been proactive, then you're never going to be—like, it's a hard concept to understand to look at it and go, "Oh, I see this happening," and then what people do, like, "Told you that was going to happen!" It's like, "Okay, if you see this happening, come up with a number of responses to mitigate that outcome that you see happening."

Listen, listen. Major League Baseball. The best batters—the best batters in Major League Baseball—anticipate. They predict where the ball is going to come from before it ever leaves the hand of the pitcher because there's not enough time right between the release of the ball and the swing of the bat. So if that's fundamentally sound, if you can believe that, then you will understand the underpinnings of thinking and critical thinking and being able to predictive analysis on human behavior from a spectrum.

That's a perfect example. And if anyone wants to understand exactly what we mean by that at a literal and then metaphorical sense, there's that documentary on Netflix called Fastball, and that's what they did. They looked at all these different pitchers and batters, and they measured it. And what all these batters would say on a really fast pitcher who had a really, really—he had a very like 105-mile-an-hour fastball. And what they said was, "Man, I don't know how he does it, but when you see that ball coming and you swing, it actually right as it comes across the plate, it rises up." And you know, physics says not possible, right? That—that—that ball starts falling from the time it leaves the pitcher's hand until it hits the catcher's glove. That ball is falling. Here's the thing: if it's going 50 miles an hour, it's going to fall before it gets the plate. If it's going 105 miles an hour, it's not going to fall, but just like you said, that batter made that decision as it was leaving the pitcher's hand. So that means his brain, using heuristics and a whole bunch of other stuff, is anticipating where that ball is going to be. And since so protracted forward, guess—guess what? When it's not there because it's 10 miles an hour faster than he's ever—he's ever hit a ball before, what does it look like to him? "Man, it rose up as I was swinging." You [expletive] didn't! Your anticipation—you can—you miscalculated where that ball would be. And that—that's that, but these guys are swearing by it. They're like, "Dude, dude, I've seen it. I've seen it. I know it!" And we're going, and that's the beauty of observation, of understanding physics, of how your brain works, how you make decisions in a short amount of time. I mean, it's all wrapped up just in that story and that analogy that you brought up. And—and if you watch it, you go, "Holy crap!" You could put that back—you could put that batter on a flipping stand, and he will testify under oath, take a lie detector, and pass, and go, "It rose! It rises!"

And so—so two quick things. One, you're spot on, Brian. But for those thinking people in the audience that aren't knuckle-draggers like me, look up our dear friend, Dr. Bill Harrison's work: "Slow the Game Down." Another great way that he breaks it down and shows the physics of that. Look up our—our good friend, Pete Carroll, and—and who's with Pete? Jeannette and Janelle McAuley and Dr. Um...

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, look up their great work because I'll tell you what they do is they're out there looking for the perfect team to field and give them enough information that on the field, even though they're doing a play, they employ critical thinking. Why am I say that? Because life is a game of inches, folks. And if you expect the same type of stuff out of your law enforcement, that they can be our batters of the law and they can understand decisions and they can shoot and run and stuff, look no further than how much and how long it takes to do that with professional athletes, and some of them are still [expletive], okay? And some of them still make mistakes, and sometimes teams lose games. And if you can understand that, we have to, Brian, reinvent our priorities and say that police work—the people that keep us safe in all these situations—have to be on par with that. If we don't, we're going to keep getting what we have. And I'll point to the historical record of law enforcement as my demonstration.

All right. Well, I think I don't have to pee again if that's any consolation, Brian.

I just—I feel good right now. I don't have to take my bio break.

Well—well, no, I—I don't want to. I—we—we're—we're trying to do our best to—to bash a method or a system without, you know, poking people in the eye because I don't care. It's not their fault. It's—it's not really. It's ours. Meaning the responsibility lies on everyone. Everyone goes, "Well, we got to hold people responsible for this." Okay. Well, where are you putting yourself in that? You had nothing to do with it. [expletive].

If you're never—remember that continuum when Brian was talking about where do I get on and where do I get off? You as an individual and how you treat others, yeah, look, we're all responsible for this. So why don't we all do this? I mean—I mean, this. We—we want to shift blame, which I—I get, no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Um, but, um, that—that becomes the solution at a personal level as well.

Let's clean it up. I take all responsibility, it's my fault. Let's start over and—and let's make training better by starting with the three big ones: sociology, physiology, and psychology. And then let's go that extra step further and say if it's not relevant when it comes to strategic, operational, and tactical, and—and its spirals, then guess what? My new way of rating your training, if it doesn't hit on those six, Brian, and it doesn't make me more resilient and move the dial, then guess what? It's no good. And—and I'll go on record saying that.

Yeah. My—my thing is, um, I—I try to do it this way, um, you know, if don't—don't buy into the [expletive] simple answer. "Oh, well, Greg, it's all the Left's fault. If these demons were doing it, we wouldn't have this." "Oh, Greg, it's all Trump's fault. He is the reason for everything that is wrong in the world." Like, "Yeah, get the [expletive] out of here with that." It's cultural appropriation, it's whatever. "Oh, this is Copenhagen. If it wasn't for COVID, it wasn't for pandemic, then we didn't..." I—and all of that is—is the problem is these oversimplifications and we want the clickbait. We want to blame our situation on someone else and, "Well, if it was just this—" Sorry, man, that's the easy way out. If you want to take that, well, first of all, you're probably not listening. You're not listening to this anymore, so I'm not even talking...

And choose—choose not to listen to Brian and I, and please take us off of your list. You know, choose to shut your mouth, too, because don't ever think—the easiest thing you could ever do is unfollow us on social media. You don't like what someone's saying, don't listen, click. You don't like what you're listening to, go somewhere else. If you're searching just to just to confirm what you already believe, then [expletive] off, because it doesn't do anyone any good. Like, if you're not constantly questioning what you're doing and being critical, then there's no—there's no improvement. And—and that's not happening. If we could do that, if everyone did that on an individual scale and said, "Maybe I'm the problem." I love you, Taylor Swift, I'm not bashing on you, right? "Maybe I'm the problem." Then—then—then at scale, that—that helps. And—and the reason why we don't is just this: We're just getting thrown at it, and I don't—we're getting thrown—thrown at this crap at us all day long that it's easy to buy into, and these narratives are, and things are always more complicated. These situations are always more complicated. So don't take the simple answer. When someone's trying to sell you tickets or sell you an idea of, "Oh, it's just this." There—there's someone's profiting from that, and it's probably not you.

So—so Brian, physiologically you just gave off a great kinesic biometric. My brain, Brian, folks, if you're watching, was so angry that he was rubbing his front of his head, and his prefrontal cortex is on fire right now because he's thinking of all these different angles, and he's frustrated. And then, well, they've got to get it out.

Yeah. So—so let me add this clearly. It's difficult, which is why, yes, yes. I hate listening the same shallow pedantic over and over and over. But, Brian, why did they limit—why do they limit, and I don't know the words, but there's like memes and Instagrams and Twitters and all those other things. I don't understand. I don't have any of them, folks. I don't even have FaceTime or whatever that's called that Brian's broadcasting this on. But listen, why do they limit the number of—of letters on this? We both know that our dear friend Emery Essie uses text and—and writes novels in text that take me a day or two to read, right? But why—why are those formats limited? Because people don't care. And, Brian, they're sparring. It's like a fencing match. I'll throw this out there and you throw that out there, and let me just have a couple of words to be thought-provoking. Okay? Every novel I know, if we're looking at Kafka or Tolstoy, or we're looking at a Heinlein, if you like science fiction, they're big books, Brian, because there's a lot of things we've got to say to build things. You get what I'm trying to say? So I would also say be cautious when somebody is trying to paint a soundbite in your house. You know, "Don't worry, be happy," whatever it is. "It's the circle of life." Whatever the gosh damn thing you're buying into, it's probably just a mantra, and it's probably not enough. Probably got to work on that diet. Probably going to live a lot a little. Probably got to study a little. Do you see what I'm saying? And I would also caution, Brian, you don't understand what de-escalation is. And I'm putting that out to our audience. You keep using the word de-escalation, and you don't even know the etymology. You don't know what it means.

No, that—that's a—that's a great point. And actually, thanks, Pat, my cousin Pat. Hop on here, was following along. Yeah, you know, it's a—it's a tangled, complex problem from hell, like all problems worth tackling.

That's like my marriage.

Yeah. But stop it! Get out of my marriage! It is, right? Complicated. But he also said, "You know, it's 100% the result of the fluoridation of water in the 1960s." So, and non-metallic fillings. It's shaped into my brain. So it's like I'm with your pet. So—so, it—it, and you know, pretty squatchy. I—I think—no reason to go—go—go much—much further on this because I get the point with a lot of this because I can go and we can talk about this from so many different angles, and it's frustrating. There's meat on...

But we're conflating all that.

We just oversimplify everything with, "Oh, well, if we just did this, then that would solve the problem." It's like, "No, maybe you need to do some of that, and maybe that might help with one of the contributing factors, but come on, man." Like, this—this crap that we keep hearing and—and to bring it back to a training aspect and what we do is in the critical thinking of getting that time and distance, you can give yourself the time if you're listening to this and you wake up a little bit early so you have a few minutes for yourself in the morning, that's literally all we're talking about. But, right? Like, that's all we're talking about really is at scale. At scale, that's what we're talking about. I mean, are we not? Is it—is it any more complicated than that than going, "You know what? I'm going to—I'm going to leave the house five minutes early so I'm not racing through traffic." That is at a very, very basic level. That's all we're talking about. I mean, these problems can be—can be solved, but, um, I guess I don't want to go too much further on...

Well, here's my thing, let's see what kind of reaction we get, Brian. And I are willing to talk about this, folks. Tell us what you think. We've got more meat on the bone that we want to add to it. We've got some examples and—and things we want to talk about, but not if you don't want to listen. So, you know, this is the part where you get to tell us what you want to hear.

Yeah, no. And I—I think we'll do something like this again, stay laser focused on us. But if we don't—if we don't, we're both going to explode. Yeah.

Because we yelled at each other too much a little bit over the holidays.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. I don't—I don't know. Um, we've had plenty of these heated phone calls before. We said, "Why—why not try and do this and see what comes of it?" Because it'll help get the—the message out there a little bit more clear. Um, one, if you're offended by anything we said, then you're—you're the problem. You're the snowflake. I mean, because we weren't—because you're not listening because that's because we're not intending to be offended.

Intent. We're exactly blamed at all on the training and the process and the methodology and the framework that isn't in place that should be, and we can fix it. And we're literally saying all these contributing factors that people talk about are part of it, but—but—but there is no—there you have to build a method to deal with it. You can't come up with, "Here's the shiny thing we need, Greg."

Yeah, I got it right here. You know that—that's it. We just got this new whiz-bang thing and that'll solve the problem. And you've got to get past thinking like that.

My pedometer makes me healthier, Brian. You know, I've got—I've got that new wristwatch that—that Fitbit and it's going to make me smarter and stronger and faster. Yeah. And I don't have to do a thing. I just turned around. Your batteries are...

At least some of the people follow along on Facebook Live. So do more session number two. Your tangents are then another one. Your tangents are always relevant. Thank you for the—the—the Jacqueline, the—the belligerent bookworm, as she's known for following along. But, um, but yeah. So anyone, again, just for anyone listening, um, you can follow me on Facebook. The link will be in there so you can come up live and just throw in your comments. Um, and if they're good, I'll discuss them. If you're way off point, then I'll try and clarify, um, because we have had that issue.

Or insult you and hang on. People completely miss the intent and want to bring up their own.

I know and comment along and you're like, "That has nothing to do with what we're talking about." But anyway, we're going to see that because we're open and transparent and allow anyone to—to come along for the ride. So, um, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.

I found it on Facebook, salacious. He didn't mean it the way that came across. "Hey, hey, girls, we'll be back to pick you up later." Jesus Christ. He didn't mean anything like that.

I didn't mean it like that. But hey, if you're into that, write that too. We'll find out and change the next broadcast. Jesus. With the lotion in the basket. Sure.

I have an ID. Can you help me move this couch?

Exactly. So this is on—on that note, I think—I think we'll—we'll wrap it up. But, um, yeah. Now I got to pee again. Yeah. I appreciate everyone for—for listening in and following along. Send us "thehumanbehaviorpodcast@gmail.com". Follow us on social media. Um, we're getting more to the Instagram stuff. We're getting better at it in terms of kind of getting the message out there clear and people are digging what we're posting now. So please follow along. It helps us out a lot. And always, if you have something specific you want us to cover, hit up "thehumanbehaviorpodcast@gmail.com" and we'll kind of pick it apart from—from our—our—our point of view. So thank you guys, everyone. And don't forget that training changes behavior.